Calcium?

[Taj MaHen]

I live on a mountaintop made mostly of limestone, granite and shale, and I have a limestone gravel driveway. Do I need to give my mixed flock of geese chickens and guineas additional calcium for laying? Theyre on a quality all flock layer feed. They free range at least 12 hrs a day. I read that limestone is a quick form that leaves the body quickly, but if they have a constant supply do you think thatll be enough for them? Tia

 

[DobieLover]

all flock layer feed

This is an oxymoron. Can you please post a picture of the tag on the bag?
I would still put out oyster shell. Just because something has calcium in it's makeup does not mean it is readily bioavailable.

 

[Taj MaHen]

This is an oxymoron. Can you please post a picture of the tag on the bag?
I would still put out oyster shell. Just because something has calcium in it's makeup does not mean it is readily bioavailable.

Why is it an oxymoron? Did you read the post? It was not about the food at all

 

[HollowOfWisps]

Why is it an oxymoron? Did you read the post? It was not about the food at all

It is an oxymoron because you cannot have both an “all flock” and “layer” feed as one feed. To be considered an “all flock” the feed has to have a very low calcium content that is a safe level for all flock members including chicks, roosters, non-laying hens and other poultry species that high calcium could cause potential health issues. To be considered a “layer” feed it has to have a higher calcium content that is adequate for a laying hens. @DobieLover was asking for a picture of the nutritional label to see how much calcium your hens are already getting from their feed. That will help determine how much more calcium they will need in their diet and if eating what is available to them through natural available calcium sources will be enough.

 

[saysfaa]

I live on a mountaintop made mostly of limestone, granite and shale, and I have a limestone gravel driveway. Do I need to give my mixed flock of geese chickens and guineas additional calcium for laying? ..,do you think thatll be enough for them?

No, to needing more. and Yes, to being enough.

There are lots of studies about things like how different size particles of limestone affect chickens, laying, ect. These conclude that limestone is a suitable source of the needed calcium.

For people who do not live on mountains with lots of limestone and have limestone driveways, there probably are sources of limestone that do not work well - particles that are too big or too small for example. Or mixed with something not good for the chickens if it is intended for plants, for example.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Chickens were getting enough calcium from their environment before they were domesticated. They can get calcium from certain plants, from some of the creepy crawlies they catch and eat, and from native rock that contains calcium, like limestone.

Limestone is composed of calcium carbonate. If you look at the label on your bag of chicken feed one of the ingredients is probably calcium carbonate though I've seen a few that actually say limestone. A common source of calcium carbonate is to grind limestone.

I grew up on a farm in East Tennessee that had a lot of limestone on it. We never provided any calcium supplement to the chickens because they did not need it. The eggshells were thick and hard.

Chickens can swallow bits of rock about the size of a green pea or smaller. It can get ground up in the gizzard but what causes it to be absorbed by the chicken's body is the acidic digestive juices. That acid converts it to a useable form.

I read that limestone is a quick form that leaves the body quickly, but if they have a constant supply do you think thatll be enough for them?

Taj Mahen, there is an easy check. How hard are your eggshells? If they are hard they are getting enough calcium from some source. If they are soft then they need a calcium supplement.

From the farm I grew up on and with a bit of understanding of chickens before they were domesticated I don't think you have anything to worry about but when they are laying check the eggshells to put your mind at ease.

 

[avjudge]

Chickens were getting enough calcium from their environment before they were domesticated.

Chickens’ ancestors before domestication only needed a small percentage of the calcium they need now because they only laid a small percentage of the number of eggs.

We have ramped up chickens’ egg laying far beyond what nature designed, and in response we need to ramp up the calcium provided far beyond what nature supplies in a wild diet.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Chickens’ ancestors before domestication only needed a small percentage of the calcium they need now because they only laid a small percentage of the number of eggs.

We have ramped up chickens’ egg laying far beyond what nature designed, and in response we need to ramp up the calcium provided far beyond what nature supplies in a wild diet.

For different reasons I do not agree but you are entitled to your opinion. It is not worth the argument.

But I'll repeat. Go by the eggshells. If they are OK you are OK with what you are doing. If they are thin or soft, offer calcium supplements. I think it is that simple.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Chickens’ ancestors before domestication only needed a small percentage of the calcium they need now because they only laid a small percentage of the number of eggs.

We have ramped up chickens’ egg laying far beyond what nature designed, and in response we need to ramp up the calcium provided far beyond what nature supplies in a wild diet.

while this is true, it misses the point that the poster is in a calcium rich environment, in which calcium sources (limestone, in this case) of appropraite size are readily available. One can also reasonably antipate that the forage in that area will also be calcium rich.

Does it hurt to provide an additional calcium source (i.e. a tray of oyster shell)? NO. Is it necessary? In that environment, assuming they are consistently getting shells of adequate hardness from the flock, also NO.

and we have yet to establish whether the original poster is offering an "All Flock" formulation or a "Layer" formulation a their feed of choice. If its a "Layer" formulation, the calcium neeed of the birds are almost certainly met, regardless of environment, breed, or age of bird - and will be exceeded for many birds.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I live on a mountaintop made mostly of limestone, granite and shale, and I have a limestone gravel driveway. Do I need to give my mixed flock of geese chickens and guineas additional calcium for laying? Theyre on a quality all flock layer feed. They free range at least 12 hrs a day. I read that limestone is a quick form that leaves the body quickly, but if they have a constant supply do you think thatll be enough for them? Tia

Limestone is primarily calcium carbonate. Its a slow form calcium which is almost complete useless to us human types, but the preferred form for chickens.

Calcium Citrate (popularly, "Citrical") is more bioavalable to us, but due to its rapid release, is not a good version of calcium to provide to meet their maintenance needs (it is, however, often offered medically to chickens for certain short term calcium related conditions). It also contains less calcium per pound than calcium carbonate.

The other versions of calcium commonly seen in chicken feeds are calcium diphosphate and dicalcium phoshate. Both are known for providing non-phytate phosphorus, which chickens need, and for the buffering effect phoshorous has in cases of excess calcium consumption.