Chicks are twisting head all the way around, seem neuro problem????

[littlerattie]

OK. They will get no fish oil.
They only had one dose of antibiotics so we will cease those unless they exhibit symptoms of pneumonia.
I thought I would use the antibiotics after hearing that one of the people on here had one get better from the wryneck only to die of pneumonia.
For now they are comfortable (as they can be), dry, and well fed. They seem comfy as they are only giving the little "happy chick" peeps right now.

Now, for another question.

If their craw seems filled with moist food that is squishy to the touch (from the moist feed given to them) do they still need much water? I am afraid they will "get it down the wrong hatch" if we feed them too much water. We have been giving them water, but if we could hold out on actual water and give it to them in their feed...
Would you think that some jello would work to get the water down safer?

 

[threehorses]

They need to drink as much water as they choose to drink. I'd just see if their crops empty by the morning. Are you giving them the water by hand? Are they at all able to drink? Poor babies.

For water, I'd say dampening crumbles with pedialyte will help dehydration. I'd be curious to hear what dlhunicorn says though.

On the antibiotics, yeah I know - I think I know that same bird and the symptoms came up so quickly, too quickly. I'm feeling a bit jumpy about that, too. It's just the nature of birds that sometimes their symptoms are so subtle that we don't catch them til they're too well established.

 

[dlhunicorn]

There is often rancidity issues (which make the bird sick or weaker) when the fish oil is not from a humangrade supplement tab resource... I am careful with it and only give fishoil from human supplement tabs (since I do not have thousands of birds I also find this cheaper than the amount of petgrade offered in the feed stores which sits for months (rancidity issues) unused)... in general though I use wheatgermoil as opposed to to fishoil.

In general no they cannot overdose on the B vitamins (is not retained in system as the A / E /selenium etc is) ...

> I hope you are getting the combo E/selenium tab as the selenium is crucial in order for the bird to utilize this amount of E...
Do NOT exceed the dosage levels given in Alan Stanfords treatment article

@three horses regarding the dosages (A interfering with uptake of E) > yes I do have info on this... I helped Alan Stnaford on the research for his updated treatment article to double check on the dosages/toxicity etc. I am unsure how much of the specific research articles (to be found in pubmed) I have posted in my Library... I have so much yet to post/sort out but I do have it saved.
You can find it in the nutrition and supplement section ... I would have to look myself... Much of the relevant articles were posted on the asbc site (alan stanfords silkie group where I am moderator)... I will try and refind the a few articles for you.
a good general article here:
http://www.drmacs.com/VitaminsandSupplementationRequirements.pdf
... altho as I said I will have to do some extensive digging around to re-find the specific (poultry) research articles done (usually can also be found in pubmed)
One of the reasons you will find my recomendation for AviaCharge 2000 in almost all my posts (in addition to any particular supplement) is that iit is a COMPLETE (minimum) daily formulation, and all in the correct ratios to each other of vit/mineral/micro nutrient recquirements of poultry > all are inter-related and when there is an imbalance it can affect absorption. Malabsorption to one degree or another will always be present in stress or illness and supplying this supplement will go a long way to addressing that.

I never EVER post info without having more than a couple irrefutable sources for the information posted (ergo the moderator team appointed sigline under my member name lol)
Diana

ETA: Direct link to Nutrition section at my Library:
http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/index.cgi#nutrition

I started trying to sort out all the articles/research I have specifically on vit E and selenium in this thread (however due to some RL issues have not gotten far with it as I had no time)
http://dlhunicorn.conforums.com/ind...ion=display&num=1190452285&start=0#1190452285

...there are several references in this article:
http://www.avianmedicine.net/articles/vitamin-e.doc

When I find time I can look for the specific poultry research abstracts for you not posted yet in my library.

 

[threehorses]

dlhunicorn, I can go digging about (and am sure I'll find great stuff there - so maybe digging about is the best way - grin). Thank you! There's no need for you to. I'm a bit giggly at the prospect of new information!

I'm also looking into AviaCharge as well. I rarely ever need a v/m supplement here, but I have had to on occassion (such as when my geese were all mauled and shocky). I am very much not a fan of most packages, or the way they're given, but I like the faith you have in Aviacharge and it would be nice to find something that people could order ahead of time for their medicine cabinets for times like this that was easier to give than the Enfamil, which I can't say I could see being effectively given to multiple chickens at once. So I'm going to find all the places at which it can be purchased, and read your articles so i, too, can explain the 'why's' of it.

I have to say, I agree with your stand on fish oil and wheat germ oil. I used fortified wheat germ oil after a long period of experimentation with a breeding line of show chickens that just wouldn't produce viable eggs. They would produce infertile eggs (no feather issues), then eggs that would die out at 14 days, then finally after a few months of tweaking and re-tweaking supplements, viable chicks through to hatch and past 2 weeks of life. To young-adulthood (before the raccoons killed my results).

I'm curious how you recommend using it? Generally I used it quite sparingly and recommended the same because of the holding of the oil vitamins in the fat. So I just want to do the old check-and-balance on myself.

Thank you!!

 

[dlhunicorn]

AviaCharge (last time I looked) is approved for organic certified > it is a daily formulation (most supplements are not) .
Many birds don't like having their water "changed" and you can mix this in with a wee bit of cooked oatmeal and then mix that through their feed. this is how I would give it to an ill bird (or concentrate it in a few "pills" make from the oatmeal) ... you can also sprinkle it on a favorite treat such as watermelon.
Any particular deficiencies can be addressed by a specific supplement in addition TO the aviacharge (such as E or A or D3 etc.)

 

[threehorses]

I'm glad you mention that about the feeding. I really like knowing that the vitamins get in there before light can do anything. That way I know that they're getting it.

I had no idea about the organic approval though! That will make some people happy (including me).

Thank you!! /hugs!! I so appreciate the info!

 

[dlhunicorn]

another handy trick is to "dip" (farmed) mealworms in the aviacharge powder to an ill bird that is being difficult... they rarely can resist a squiggly meal worm !

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
LOL I love it! That's not unsimilar to treating worms/crickets with calcium for reptiles, is it? Devious - in a good way!

 

[littlerattie]

Happy day! Our little guys are recovering. One has relapsed, but we upped his vitamins and it is now back to walking around for the most part.
If we forget to give them both the vitamin E and B complex they relapse.
They are still having a hard time drinking because trying to drink causes the spasms to get really bad. Eating is fine, but drinking is something else altogether! So, for fluids we have been soaking their feed.
Thank you for all the advice! I really do believe that the buggers will make it. And maybe even in a few days will be able to rejoin all their buddies.
Here is how I feed them...(copied from another post I made here tonight)....
I have been feeding our little chicks with crookneck and found after my initial fear of mortally harming our little guys it is really easy.
Wrap chick in light weight rag and put butt first into a coffee mug to hold the bugger upright (beats trying to hold a squirming, screaming chick while trying to get a lump of mush into an almost impossibly small opening that is flailing back and forth!).
Find the most comfortable way to grasp the beak and pry it open. For me, that was to have the back of the head towards the palm of my hand and then using my thumb and middle finger to pry the beak open.
I also found it was easiest to soak some type of food in water then form small lumps. For higher initial protein turtle food works delightfully well. Cat food works for a bit larger chicks. If you don't have pre-formed food then add water to their feed and mash it into a roll and cut that into little pea sized peices.
Take a lump and insert into the beak, as far back as possible. When we first started I would actually use a tweezers, or the end of the handle of a paring knife, or any other rather blunt object and poke the food down so I could barely see it anymore.
Force feed until the crop feels fullish, not hard, but full.
is!

Thanks again!

Jayne