Color question

[Azriel]

I have hatched out a few different shipped orders of Wheaton/Blue Wheaton Ameraucana. I have gotten some very nice quality chickens that I would like to breed. I guess I never thought much about it, but one of the chicks I hatched out is a very very nice black roo, does he have any use in a wheaton/blue wheaton breeding program? Or, shouldn't I have gotten a black in the first place?

 

[Illia]

You shouldn't have gotten a black in the first place, however I believe you mean he was a surprise, yes? Sounds like someone mixed up their eggs?

But, no, sadly a black will not be a good use with a Wheaten/Blue Wheaten project. You'll just get EE looking chicks, since Wheaten is recessive.

 

[Azriel]

Thanks for the reply, yes, I did mean that he was a surprise. I had put some of my BA mix eggs in the bator with the shipped eggs, so when he hatched I just thought he was one of my mixed eggs. It wasn't untill about a week later I saw the fuzzy cheeks and knew he was'nt one of mine. He has grown into a very very pretty young roo. Not as sweet and friendy and underfoot as the wheaton/blue wheaton, but not at all mean (yet). I didn't want to separate the few EE's that I have from the main flock, but I guess I could do that and put him with them.
One more question, breeding blue whaton to blue wheaton will you get splash? Out of the same eggs I got a chick that started out mostly white, then he started to get red in his wings that has now spread over his back, he has light blue tail feathers and some light blue body spots. He is no where near the quality of the black, so he will be going to the freezer, but I was wondering about the color.
I've been breeding and showing dogs and horses for years, and have their color genetics down pat, but these chickens?????. I think it is much harder because you don't know for sure who the mom and dad are. You have a pen of maybe 15-20 hens in with 2 roos, yes, you know the chicks are from that pen, but not which roo bred which hen, or what egg is from which hen. Much more of a challenge. I love a challenge!

 

[tadkerson]

The two blue genes found in the splash should not effect the red pigments that are found in your bird. The male should develop red in his pyle zone ( shoulders ,back etc.)- where he would be normally black ( in a wheaten male) is where the splash color should be found. I would not cull the male unless he shows some other faults. The male should look similar to a red pyle.

If you cross the splash roo with your wheaten females you will get all blue wheaten.

You can produce more blacks with the black male.

Black male x wheaten hen = F1 hybrids (basic black)

Black male X F1 hybrids= BC1 black offspring (pick the pullets that are completely black)

Black male X BC1 black females = black offspring (cull for the best)


Chicken genetics are complicated. Sometimes people want simple answers to a complicated subject and that is not happening. Chickens do not have an agouti locus like mammals but do have an extended locus (very important locus).

The problem with chickens is that you can get the same phenotype in two chickens but the two chickens are genetically different. Chickens also express sexual dichromatism- the males will look different than the females. Lots of genes that modify other genes and incomplete dominance is ubiquitous.


If you stick with the blue wheaten and black phenotype, you should not have a difficult time.

Chick down is a good indicator of the genes found in a bird. If the chick down is consistent then most likely adult phenotype will be consistent also.

Tim

 

[Azriel]

Thanks for the great info. I might try to sell the black roo, but he is way to nice to eat, so if I can't sell him, I'll find a use for him. The splash is just not the quality I want to use for breeding, he doesn't have slate legs, and I don't like his body shape, or the way he carries himself

 

[1 hen and 1 roo]

The splash is a Splash Wheaten Ameraucana. Every Time you breed Blue Wheaten to Blue Wheaten you will get Wheaten, Blue Wheaten and Splash. If you are wanting to show your birds, you do not want to cross the black into your wheaten or blue wheaten bloodline. The Wheaten Splash can be used for breeding but it is not necessary to use him. Wheaten to Blue Wheaten will not give Splash Wheaten. Wheaten to Wheaten will give you only Wheaten. The Wheaten Splash is not a recognized color in the APA standard.

Below is some info on Wheaten, Blue Wheaten and Splash Wheaten from http://www.ameraucana.org/abcforum/index.php?a=topic&t=935 (there is a picture of the rooster and hen on this site as well).
Wheatens, blue wheatens and splash wheatens will produce the same results as blacks, blues and splash. Wheaten takes the place of blacks. Blue wheaten takes blues place and splash wheaten replaces splash. The problem with wheatens is they are all the same color at hatching. Blues, blacks and splashes are easily recognizable at hatching by the different color of their down. The wheaten, blue wheaten and splash wheaten have to start developing some feathers before they can be identified by a variety. This makes it difficult to sell only blue wheaten or only wheaten chicks if the different breeding combination are used which produce more than one variety of wheatens.

Wheaten Genetics

Here is a bit of info on how the wheaten gene works....
Wheaten x Wheaten = All Wheaten
Wheaten x Blue Wheaten = 1/2 Wheaten and 1/2 Blue Wheaten
Blue Wheaten x Blue Wheaten = 1/2 Blue Wheaten, 1/4 Wheaten and 1/4 Splash
Wheaten.
Wheaten x Splash Wheaten = All Blue Wheaten
Blue Wheaten x Splash Wheaten = 1/2 Splash Wheaten and 1/2 Blue Wheaten
Splash Wheaten x Splash Wheaten = All Splash Wheaten

 

[Henk69]

Chickens have the (dominant) columbia gene that behaves like the agouti gene somewhat.
Like dominant black in dogs is epistatic to sable, extended black in chickens is epistatic to columbian.