Combining flocks WITH roosters

[Molnut]

I need help or, at least, the name of a good shrink.
I have been driving myself nuts over this, until I figured I could ask the very wise BYC community for advice.
Here it is: I have 3 flocks which I am putting together in a big coop.

Flock 1 has Golden Cuckoo Marans and Cream Legbards females with a Golden Cuckoo Maran rooster: George. This flock is 1 1/2 year old and comes from another coop. They all are kinda timid and George was getting beaten up by a Wyandotte rooster who looks more like a turkey size-wise. Total flock 9.

Flock 2 has 44 pullets (Anconas, Welsummers, New Hampshire and regular Marans), 3 roosters (Anconas) and 1 he-she who at 20 weeks has not yet decided which side to choose.

Flock 3 has 8 Cream Legbars and 1 Spitzhauben rooster. They are 1 1/2 year old and were living in a separate coop before.

All now are in the same big coop with separations.

Two weeks ago I joined Flock 1 and Flock 2 and all is fine.

Two days ago I tried to introduce the Spitzhauben flock and this little guy had my Golden Cuckoo Maran on his back and picking at his comb drawing blood within 5 minutes. I grabbed my poor George and declared the party over. They had been seeing each others for 1 month now and all seemed OK across the chicken wire.

My question : Do I:

1. Give it another shot (not my favorite)?
2. Keep the Spitzhauben flock separated (easiest)?
3. Separate George's flock from the rest given their temperament (laid back, timid Marans) and introduce the Spitzhauben flock to the babies (flock 2) since the 3 Ancona roosters are young and will submit to my little terror of Spitzhauben? Plus they run faster than George.

So, if you are not all confused by now, you can understand my dilema.

Thanks for any input. Did I mention my husband would be grateful too as I am sharing all my anguish with him, of course.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

That's a lot of birds and roosters.

I'd go easiest. Keep the Spitzhauben separate for now. Why make troubles.

it was a lot to get Flocks 1 and 2 integrated, and George seems fine, so why rock the boat?

Your little Spithauben roo will likely be a firebrand no matter where you put him, being very protective of his little flock, so let him be separate. In time, he can adjust or move off the island and you can integrate the hens.

My thoughts,
LofMc

 

[aart]

What are your goals?
How big(in feet by feet) is your new 'big' coop?
Pics would be of great help here.

Sounds like maybe you want to breed pure breed birds?
That's the only reason I can think of to keep multiple males.

 

[Molnut]

Thanks to both of you for your quick feedback . I am so happy you responded. LofMc (I hope it's correct) I loved the "off island" expression. It's going to be my choice now too. I do have 120 chickens. Aart (ditto), I have an egg business and have selected my breeds for egg colors, productivity in winter, amiability, ability to forage and raise youngs. Now that I have my stock of choice, I am planning to breed my own stock. The offsprings will be healthier and, hopefully, with time, will perform better and be better adapted to life in pasture. I am all for the retun to the basics philosophy. Thus the roosters. The 3 Ancona males were a surprise with my last ordering of chicks.
I have one 140 sf coop with an 80 sf annex used as a waiting area/
additional shelter in winter.
The new coop is 180 sf. Both are elevated about 2 ft to provide shade and shelter underneath.
Coop 1 is 10 ft tall and coop 2 is 14 ft.
They both are sturdy wood contruction, originally designed to be sheds.
I have to check how to add pics. So some coming later.
I hope this answers your questions. Thanks again to both.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Second attempt at posting...ignore first incomplete post...weird system burp...

@Molnut
Ah, a chicken keeper after my own heart....sustainability and egg variety.

Might I make a few suggestions now that I see your basic set up (well sort of...I'm not great at creating spatial images in my mind from figures)...

Remember that each bird needs at least 10 sq feet for general life in foraging/run and at least 4 sq feet in the coop proper for simply roosting. Those are general rules of thumb, so each flock keeper has to assess what works with their particular flock and their particular environment and structure...but those numbers are a good starting point.

Even with free ranging, birds tend to tromp the same grounds, so forced rotation will still be necessary for proper field control (worms/parasites). In contained areas, even more so.

You've got a lot of birds...122...into mostly one really big coop and attached run? With the original structure still usable????? With your bird numbers and what I quickly computed in my head (which may be off...sorry), it seems like you are a bit cramped in the one big building. A 180 foot space would house 18 birds for general run. You had additional spaces...but my math did not compute the space necessary for 122 birds....although the one flock of about 50??? (Combined 1 and 2) would fit in all the spaces you described.

Flock dynamics can become more difficult with very large flocks as a group of one. Typically the birds start subdividing into subgroups and can fight between those groups in contained space. In large flocks it is harder to see who is being unduly harassed until damage is done. More importantly, you can have health issues with very large flocks that you won't see with smaller more controlled (subdivided) flocks

I'm a little confused as well...are you free ranging? Your space conditions would work if you are free ranging throughout the day. However, large free range area is usually contra-purpose to an egg business. You'll typically have a lot of waste that way in eggs left about the countryside unless you have specialized egg boxes in the ranging system (which some large free range farms have in fields). Large flocks in large free range situation also make it very hard to maintain overall flock health for production simply because it is hard to keep an eye on individual birds so that small problems can become big problems before they are noticed. And predators become a problem. Generally electric fence wire and guard dogs are used to help keep large free range flocks safe.

It is usually better to group into smaller sub-flocks for the purpose of overall watchability of individual birds for health and production in a business enterprise.

Subdividing and separating can slow down disease transmission. If one flock contracts something, you don't risk the others catching it (if you follow some good biosecurity and coop to coop sanitation).

You also have a lot bird types freely mingling, with a variety of roosters, with the goal of egg production and egg color variety (if I understood you correctly).

If not carefully controlled you will breed out your blue shell gene (the Cream Legbars) and over time reduce your color variety substantially. Ditto with dark brown layers. That is why breeders keep specific breeding pens, to keep the breeds pure for the desired characteristics the breeds provide. Hybridizing (for olive eggs, for example) require special attention to assure the proper bird is being bred otherwise, again, you can breed out the blue or dark variability rather quickly in a loose free ranging situation with birds breeding at will.

If you simply desire eggs, of any color, and a general generic bird type (actually you'll get all kinds of types and sorts as the breeds mingle and produce offspring...some desirable some not), over the bird generations, general mixing can work as long as flock dynamics, space, and health concerns are addressed. In time (and over years) you will eventually get a flock type that *should* arise through natural selection to be the best suited for the environment...but it might not produce the qualities you desire without some input and control.

Just some additional thoughts.
Good luck on your endeavors to flock sustainability and egg production.
LofMc

 

[Molnut]

Thanks for your response LofMc. My last response was about the coop sizes only. I have two coops. One is 140 sf with an additional 96 sf wing which has large, floor level windows that open and serves as additional shelter during inclement weather.
The other coop is 180 sf with a planned 120 sf covered wing. It is new and still a work in progress.
My birds day range. Each coop is surrounded by a 6800 sf enclosure secured with electronet fencing. I do rotate the fence regularly to give my chickens access to fresh pasture.
I do have a separate 32 sf coop which will be my honey moon coop. I do intend to breed roosters and selected hens of the same breed.
I harvest the eggs of each flock daily and am not planning mix hatching unless carefully and purposedly selected.
I do follow AWA guidelines for my flocks.
I hope the picture is clearer now.
BTW I did follow your advice and worked today at making the flock separation more permanent and everybody seemed fine about it. It is a big relief for me. Thanks again.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Sounds like you've got the set up and a plan.
I wish you much success with it.
LofMc

 

[Molnut]

Thanks
I would like to hear about your set up. I'm still new at this and nothing beats experience.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I've personally got a small set up on 1/3 acre as I'm a hobbyist. I've got 3 coops...2 connected with a run in between and the 3rd across the property as that is my brooding hutch. (I also have an isolation coop around the opposite side of the house behind a heavy fence that has access from the house so I never cross range ground to tend to isolated birds).

I have a pretty sophisticated gating system so I can close the run, block off one coop or the other, or divide out the broody hutch, depending upon breeding situation, broody situation, or grow outs.

Sadly, I simply can't get good field rotation on 1/3 acre, so I do the next best thing. We bark chipped the whole range (they still have lawn access) and deep litter compost. Every spring, I call up my gardening friends and neighbors who come over and scoop out the runs for their gardens. I then refill the runs with fresh bark chips. Not perfect, but does turn over the ground and allow better field control. (Also makes for fine compost for gardens).

However, my grandmother owned a chicken farm for egg production. Also, I started my hobby flock in response to my daughter's desire to be a vet tech (I grew up in ranching/farming country with ag family, and she got the "bug." Me...I married a computer geek and moved to the suburbs of all places

We did a lot of work together on our 1/3 acre to establish a flock with good principles as she learned the basics for vet tech school. Her ultimate desire was to become a farmer.

Which she has accomplished. She married a fine young man from Tennessee...they even pulled a trailer with a small flock of my best hens as a wedding gift...all the way from Oregon to Tennessee...the RIR's didn't stop laying the whole trip! Now that's stamina!

My daughter and SIL now raise organic vegetables and chickens for eggs and meat. (And a very fine grandson

They have 5 acres under cultivation on a 90 acre farm. They use the chickens for organic fertilizer as well as weed/bug control.

The birds are in a large tractor system that is pulled to different parts of the farm, so the birds can do what they do. The tractor system has nest boxes so the hens can lay properly.

I'm not sure what there numbers are right now, between layers and meat birds, but I know she sold and processed a bunch of meat birds for her CSA orders...enough to pay for all the birds she kept for the family freezer.

I'll try to dig through my photos to find some to show some of their set up. It really is nice. If I remember correctly, they also have a hoop house for the birds. They have a misting system as Tennessee gets really hot in the summer.

So sadly, my personal photos of my personal set up would probably bore you as I'm on a very small scale here in Oregon....but my daughter's farming plan has been fun to watch unfold as they grow and improve for long term sustainability and organic production.

My grandma? She was the old timer commercial set up....large hen houses, lots of nest boxes, your typical commercial operation in the early 60's. (I even grew up in feed sack dresses and play sets.

Post photos of your operation. I'd love to see what you are doing...and I'll do my best to find where I put their farm operations....somewhere under all those baby pictures, I'm sure.

If interested in my small field op, you can see my story and photos on my profile page here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/lady-of-mccamleys-member-page.53374/

LofMc

 

[aart]

I do follow AWA guidelines for my flocks.

I found their housing mins to be surprisingly tight:

https://animalwelfareapproved.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/AWA-Laying-Hen-Standards-2017-v3.pdf
Chickens – minimum indoor area, Space per bird
Meat chicken 0.67 sq. ft
Pullet 0.67 sq ft
Laying hen 1.8 sq. ft
Breeder 1.8 sq.

Chickens – minimum additional foraging area when birds are excluded from a ranging and foraging area, Space per bird
Meat chicken 2.0 sq.
Pullet 2.0 sq ft
Laying hen 4.0 sq. ft
Breeder 4.0 sq.