Concrete foundation and apron questions

[NewYorkChick]

Hey BYC!

Newbie here. Living in upstate New York. Building my first coop using some purchased and modified plans (image from the designer's website is attached). Coop will be located at the top of a hill with a very slight slope that I'm hoping to level out while still saving the grass. Looking for some help answering these two construction/design questions:

1. The plans I have indicate a six inch concrete foundation underneath the outer edges of the coop and run (essentially underneath any wood framing that would otherwise sit on the ground). I really like the idea of keeping the wood off the ground so it may last a bit longer, but I'm not sure how secure this design would be. If it's only six inches in height, it's nowhere near the frost line (especially in upstate NY). If the wooden frame is bolted to this concrete strip, will it hold the coop in place even against strong winds? Any suggestions on how best to secure it? I am no engineer and really at a loss here.
2. I am planning to use the hardware cloth apron two feet out from every side as suggested many a time on this site. I was also going to use straw bales on the outer edge of two sides to protect the run area from wind. Does this detract from the security of the apron since mice/rats will be able to dig at the edge of the straw bales? Are they likely to tunnel for 2-3 feet to reach the inside of the run?

Thanks everyone!

 

[Shezadandy]

Hey BYC!

Newbie here. Living in upstate New York. Building my first coop using some purchased and modified plans (image from the designer's website is attached). Coop will be located at the top of a hill with a very slight slope that I'm hoping to level out while still saving the grass. Looking for some help answering these two construction/design questions:

1. The plans I have indicate a six inch concrete foundation underneath the outer edges of the coop and run (essentially underneath any wood framing that would otherwise sit on the ground). I really like the idea of keeping the wood off the ground so it may last a bit longer, but I'm not sure how secure this design would be. If it's only six inches in height, it's nowhere near the frost line (especially in upstate NY). If the wooden frame is bolted to this concrete strip, will it hold the coop in place even against strong winds? Any suggestions on how best to secure it? I am no engineer and really at a loss here.
2. I am planning to use the hardware cloth apron two feet out from every side as suggested many a time on this site. I was also going to use straw bales on the outer edge of two sides to protect the run area from wind. Does this detract from the security of the apron since mice/rats will be able to dig at the edge of the straw bales? Are they likely to tunnel for 2-3 feet to reach the inside of the run?

Thanks everyone!

I don't have any experience on the frost line issue or building on concrete slabs, I always end up elevating my coop builds on pier blocks, but I don't live in anything resembling a cold weather climate where ground heaving is a possibility.

You can always have a contractor do the foundation for you and build on from there- then it's to code for your area.

What I started doing for predator and rodent exclusion in the coop itself was installing hardware cloth between my floor frame and my plywood floor, and running that hardware cloth up the walls so it gets attached between siding and your wall frames- and of course over window openings!! And it runs up the underside of the exposed rafters, keeping the birds away from the rafters.

In my first coop I had rats come in through roof vents. Yep. So now I staple a line of hardware cloth over the roof decking at entry points like the ridge line vent and any other roof vents. Neurotic perhaps, spendy as an initial cost but why not exclude rodents from the get-go? Then you can do your other ventilation without messing around with smaller squares screwed into frames - because the coop interior is basically enclosed in hardware cloth (except the person door and the chicken pop door). This is in addition to the apron. Also - rodents will go anywhere they can reach for shelter and food.

 

[DobieLover]

Hey BYC!

Newbie here. Living in upstate New York. Building my first coop using some purchased and modified plans (image from the designer's website is attached). Coop will be located at the top of a hill with a very slight slope that I'm hoping to level out while still saving the grass. Looking for some help answering these two construction/design questions:

1. The plans I have indicate a six inch concrete foundation underneath the outer edges of the coop and run (essentially underneath any wood framing that would otherwise sit on the ground). I really like the idea of keeping the wood off the ground so it may last a bit longer, but I'm not sure how secure this design would be. If it's only six inches in height, it's nowhere near the frost line (especially in upstate NY). If the wooden frame is bolted to this concrete strip, will it hold the coop in place even against strong winds? Any suggestions on how best to secure it? I am no engineer and really at a loss here.
2. I am planning to use the hardware cloth apron two feet out from every side as suggested many a time on this site. I was also going to use straw bales on the outer edge of two sides to protect the run area from wind. Does this detract from the security of the apron since mice/rats will be able to dig at the edge of the straw bales? Are they likely to tunnel for 2-3 feet to reach the inside of the run?

Thanks everyone!

I used an old shed that was already on my property for my coop. The building is 8x16 and sits on two pressure treated 4x4x16' skids on semi-level ground.
I built the run on piers and attached it to the coop.
So the run is anchored to piers that go down 42" but the coop floats. I attached a predator apron around the whole thing and it's doing fine.
I think that would work for you as well. I'm in the Southern Tier.

 

[mowin]

Where about ( generally) in upstate NY are you? I'm in Old Chatham. Both my coops are on 4x4 PT skids with a 18" hardware cloth apron. Haven't had any critters get past it. I personally wouldn't spend the money on a concrete slab for a chicken coop.

 

[NewYorkChick]

@mowin I'm a couple of hours west of you in Sherburne.

Thank you all for your responses! Sounds like PT skids might be the way to go. With all the wind we get up our hill I wasn't sure if we'd risk it blowing away or over, but it is a pretty large structure so hopefully the weight will be enough to keep it grounded.

 

[DobieLover]

@mowin I'm a couple of hours west of you in Sherburne.

Thank you all for your responses! Sounds like PT skids might be the way to go. With all the wind we get up our hill I wasn't sure if we'd risk it blowing away or over, but it is a pretty large structure so hopefully the weight will be enough to keep it grounded.

I would extend the rafter tails for a minimum of 1' overhang and install fly rafters at least 1' out. I did 2' and I've never had a drop of rain or a flake of snow get in the coop even with windows wide open.

But with a hat like that, I installed hurricane ties to protect against uplift forces.

We've had a few violent storms go through that took a lot of trees down but there were no issues with the coop or run.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

^^^ that.

Also, you can use a dead man or earth augurs to bolt down a coop on sleds, tieing it to the ground when its in position, to further provide resistance to unusual high wind events. The augurs are easily (somewhat) removed and relocated, the dead man most definitely is not.

I've seen logs, cinder blocks, chunks of concrete, all sorts of things used - the key is the weight of soil "above" it, resisting movement (and of course the chain, method of affixing the chain, etc need to be strong enough to resist the loads, and corrosion resistant against the elements)

 

[perkolator]

You mention both a slope and wind concerns - I would be inclined to just dig a few holes about ~2ft deep to install some simple concrete piers with a strongtie bracket cast into the top. Those are easy to level out and will anchor the structure down much better than something sitting on top of the dirt.

I don't see any issue with the skirt and hay bales, I doubt any rodent would dig 2ft+ to get into the coop. Perhaps if there was existing holes from a tunneling animal, like a mole - that's what happened in my old coop, we have lots of moles everywhere getting the worms

 

[3KillerBs]

Perhaps if there was existing holes from a tunneling animal, like a mole - that's what happened in my old coop, we have lots of moles everywhere getting the worms

In my yard the chicken coop and run are the one place that I don't have any moles or voles.

I believe my chickens call them "snacks".

 

[Shezadandy]

In my yard the chicken coop and run are the one place that I don't have any moles or voles.

I believe my chickens call them "snacks".

Yep, and baby mice and mice (that sometimes nest under my feeders out in the run) ... are tender morsels! Here and there I'll see the mounds pop up (moles) but never for more than a day or two so I imagine they get the same treatment.