Coturnix vs Coturnix

[MnCanary]

Are there actually, in practice, separate species of Coturnix? That is, can people keep Coturnix coturnix and Coturnix japonica? Are there pure strains of Coturnix coturnix and Coturnix japonica? Or are they so mixed up that we have, essentially, one genus / species?

 

[CurlyQuail]

While many people mix them up, coturnix coturnix and coturnix japonica are different species. HOWEVER they share the same genus (coturnix). I have not personally tried it, so I’m not sure if you could breed the two and get fertile offspring but most often different species cannot breed or cannot produce fertile offspring. I think their so similar and people get so confused between the two likely advertising coturnix coturnix as coturnix japonica (or vice versa) that they probably can and/or have bred and produce fertile birds.

 

[Quailobsessed]

Since they are so similar, they could probably be interbred (like golden and lady amherst's pheasants), but I don't think it would be a good idea. I personally don't like hybridisation.

 

[MageofMist]

Are there actually, in practice, separate species of Coturnix? That is, can people keep Coturnix coturnix and Coturnix japonica? Are there pure strains of Coturnix coturnix and Coturnix japonica? Or are they so mixed up that we have, essentially, one genus / species?

Since they are so similar, they could probably be interbred (like golden and lady amherst's pheasants), but I don't think it would be a good idea. I personally don't like hybridisation.

They can interbreed and as far as I know, the offspring are fertile. It is actually a somewhat common practice for game reserves to cross the two species to boost the numbers, and there is genetic pollution caused by feral hybrids of the two.

"Cross-breeding experiments between two strains of domestic Japanese Quail Coturnix japonica and one strain of European Quail Coturnix coturnix showed that it is easy to obtain the hybrid combinations F1, F2 as well as backcrosses. Fertility of the hybrid pairs and the hatchability of hundreds of eggs did not differ from those of pure European Quail pairs reared under the same conditions. Similar results were obtained for three sets of crosses involving F1 hybrids. The absence of detectable postzygotic isolating mechanisms and the strong sexual drive shown by hybrids means that restocking in Mediterranean countries with domesticated Japanese quail could rapidly lead to widespread 'genetic pollution' of the western Palearctic population of migrating European quail."

That is just the abstract, it gets more detailed in the Source, "Hybridization between European Quail (Coturnix c. coturnix) and Japanese Quail (Coturnix c. japonica)" XD

Another source, "Comparison of migratory tendency in European Quail Coturnix c. coturnix, domestic Japanese Quail Coturnix c. japonica and their hybrids"

 

[MnCanary]

They can interbreed and as far as I know, the offspring are fertile. It is actually a somewhat common practice for game reserves to cross the two species to boost the numbers, and there is genetic pollution caused by feral hybrids of the two.

"Cross-breeding experiments between two strains of domestic Japanese Quail Coturnix japonica and one strain of European Quail Coturnix coturnix showed that it is easy to obtain the hybrid combinations F1, F2 as well as backcrosses. Fertility of the hybrid pairs and the hatchability of hundreds of eggs did not differ from those of pure European Quail pairs reared under the same conditions. Similar results were obtained for three sets of crosses involving F1 hybrids. The absence of detectable postzygotic isolating mechanisms and the strong sexual drive shown by hybrids means that restocking in Mediterranean countries with domesticated Japanese quail could rapidly lead to widespread 'genetic pollution' of the western Palearctic population of migrating European quail."

That is just the abstract, it gets more detailed in the Source, "Hybridization between European Quail (Coturnix c. coturnix) and Japanese Quail (Coturnix c. japonica)" XD

Another source, "Comparison of migratory tendency in European Quail Coturnix c. coturnix, domestic Japanese Quail Coturnix c. japonica and their hybrids"

This is cool, thanks!
So...why are they different species? Do they look different or have some other difference?

 

[MageofMist]

This is cool, thanks!
So...why are they different species? Do they look different or have some other difference?

It is like how wild gaur cattle, bison and yaks can breed with domesticated cattle and produce fertile offspring despite being different species, they are still closely related enough to breed whilst having physical and behavioral characteristics that set them apart in different species, they even have different crows. Japanese Quail have the "Weh WEH!" crow, while European Quail have the "Bep ba bep" crow, though Scrappy my Japanese quail reacts strongly to the crowing of European quail too.

As for the physical differences besides plumage, European Quail are leaner with larger wings for flight, and I cannot find a consistent size for them compared to Japanese Quail... Some sources say that they are larger and others say they are smaller, though I do know they are usually lighter weight compared to the feathery balls of chub that Japanese Quail can be, so I will just add the info from their wiki pages.

European quail migrate across Africa and Europe, whilst Japanese Quail are native to Asia and don't really migrate and majority of their population is domesticated and kept across the globe.

< Japanese Quail, wild type pharaoh morph.

< European/Common Quail

< Coturnix coturnix africana, a subspecies of European Quail that is also capable of interbreeding... And I kinda suspect Scrappy might have in him as he has a very dark face, though he does crow like a regular Japanese Quail.

What do you think? XD

Japanese Quail
"The plumage of the Japanese quail is sexually dimorphic, allowing for differing sexes to be distinguished from one another.[2][9] Both male and female adults exhibit predominantly brown plumage. However, markings on the throat and breast, as well as the particular shade of brown of the plumage, can vary quite a bit.[2][9] The breast feathers of females are littered with dark spots among generally pale feathers. Contrastingly, male breast feathers show off a uniform dark reddish-brown color that is devoid of any dark spots.[2] This reddish-brown coloration also appears in the male cheek, while female cheek feathers are more cream colored. Some males also exhibit the formation of a white collar, whereas this does not occur in any female members of the species. It is important to note that while this coloration is very typical of wild populations of Coturnix japonica, domestication and selective breeding of this species has resulted in numerous different strains exhibiting a variety of plumage colors and patterns.
Males tend to be smaller than females.[9] Wild adults weigh between 90 and 100 grams while their domesticated counterparts typically weigh between 100 and 120 grams.[2] However, weight among domesticated lines varies considerably, as commercial strains bred for meat production can weigh up to 300 grams."

These are European/Common Quails
"It is a small, round bird, essentially streaked brown with a white eyestripe, and, in the male, a white chin. As befits its migratory nature, it has long wings, unlike the typically short-winged gamebirds. It measures roughly 18.0–21.9 cm (7.1–8.62 in) and weighs 91–131 g (3.2–4.62 oz)."

 

[Quailobsessed]

There's also another species of coturnix quail that looks pretty similar, called stubble quails ( Coturnix pectoralis) which are native to Australia.

This is why I call the domestic ones 'japanese quails' rather than 'coturnix quails'. Coturnix is a genus, so it includes other species too.

 

[MnCanary]

It is like how wild gaur cattle, bison and yaks can breed with domesticated cattle and produce fertile offspring despite being different species, they are still closely related enough to breed whilst having physical and behavioral characteristics that set them apart in different species, they even have different crows. Japanese Quail have the "Weh WEH!" crow, while European Quail have the "Bep ba bep" crow, though Scrappy my Japanese quail reacts strongly to the crowing of European quail too.

As for the physical differences besides plumage, European Quail are leaner with larger wings for flight, and I cannot find a consistent size for them compared to Japanese Quail... Some sources say that they are larger and others say they are smaller, though I do know they are usually lighter weight compared to the feathery balls of chub that Japanese Quail can be, so I will just add the info from their wiki pages.

European quail migrate across Africa and Europe, whilst Japanese Quail are native to Asia and don't really migrate and majority of their population is domesticated and kept across the globe.

View attachment 2274862< Japanese Quail, wild type pharaoh morph.
View attachment 2274863< European/Common Quail
View attachment 2274864< Coturnix coturnix africana, a subspecies of European Quail that is also capable of interbreeding... And I kinda suspect Scrappy might have in him as he has a very dark face, though he does crow like a regular Japanese Quail.

View attachment 2274885
What do you think? XD

Japanese Quail
"The plumage of the Japanese quail is sexually dimorphic, allowing for differing sexes to be distinguished from one another.[2][9] Both male and female adults exhibit predominantly brown plumage. However, markings on the throat and breast, as well as the particular shade of brown of the plumage, can vary quite a bit.[2][9] The breast feathers of females are littered with dark spots among generally pale feathers. Contrastingly, male breast feathers show off a uniform dark reddish-brown color that is devoid of any dark spots.[2] This reddish-brown coloration also appears in the male cheek, while female cheek feathers are more cream colored. Some males also exhibit the formation of a white collar, whereas this does not occur in any female members of the species. It is important to note that while this coloration is very typical of wild populations of Coturnix japonica, domestication and selective breeding of this species has resulted in numerous different strains exhibiting a variety of plumage colors and patterns.
Males tend to be smaller than females.[9] Wild adults weigh between 90 and 100 grams while their domesticated counterparts typically weigh between 100 and 120 grams.[2] However, weight among domesticated lines varies considerably, as commercial strains bred for meat production can weigh up to 300 grams."
View attachment 2274850View attachment 2274859View attachment 2274851

These are European/Common Quails
"It is a small, round bird, essentially streaked brown with a white eyestripe, and, in the male, a white chin. As befits its migratory nature, it has long wings, unlike the typically short-winged gamebirds. It measures roughly 18.0–21.9 cm (7.1–8.62 in) and weighs 91–131 g (3.2–4.62 oz)."
View attachment 2274846View attachment 2274858View attachment 2274855

This is awesome, and it must have been a fair amount of work for you to put together. Thanks!

There is so much imprecise language, in almost any hobby, that it can be difficult for newcomers to figure things out. You've really cleared it up for me.

I'd guess that Coturnix species crosses are making it even more difficult to discern differences. I used to have Java Rice Finches. At one time, this bird was the 2nd or 3rd most popular cage bird in America. There are a lot of color varieties, inbreeding, etc. It is nearly impossible to find a pure wild-type Java now, at least in America.