culling serama and other bantams...

[gumbii]

i'm just very curious on how people cull out seramas and other bantam breeds that you aren't able to tell if they're a cull or not until it is older... such as silkies... what do you do with them, and what..? WHAT..?!

and i'm serious... i have been culling OEGB for a while... i do it at 1 week, again at 4 weeks, and sometimes at 5 months... before dubbing... i just started getting serama breeders and have some eggs in the bator... but everyone tells me to grow them out and such... i don't want to do that... i rather not spend time/food/space on a future cull or low quality bird...

so what do you guys do...? serama and silky breeders... since i hear that silkies are also hard to tell the quality until they are a lot older...



discuss...


and keep this thread clean and friendly... if you have something negative to say about culling chicks and such, i don't want to hear it...


thanks...

 

[shelleyd2008]

I responded to your post on the other thread, but if you don't want to wait for Serama to grow, you'd be better off with a different breed. Serama really do need to grow to be able to tell how good they are. Sure, there are some who show themselves when they are very young, but most do not.

 

[shelleyd2008]

What undesirable traits would you be able to identify on a 1- or 4-week-old chick? Seriously?

I know you are on the SCNA board, you need to search on there about 'cull pens'. I know Dianne and I'm sure others have cull 'pens', where they put their undesirables, and I know recently Dianne's husband 'found' a very nice cockerel in one of her cull pens. Had she hard culled the birds instead of keeping them that bird would have been lost. I also know I've read on there of Dianne selling 'culls' only to get beaten by those very same birds at shows later on.

 

[gumbii]

Quote:
yeah i saw that...

but for someone on a mission to breed malay or very typey serama (like me), what choices do we have other than keeping culls around..? i talked to a fellow breeder today, and like he explained that most super typey birds don't breed and that's why people keep some long backed breeders that produce type... but along with the typey birds that hatch, there are going to be a lot of culls...

but still... how are we ever going to get to our breeding goals if we're just swimming in culls...? working with culls is only going to give you more culls...

 

[shelleyd2008]

Quote:
yeah i saw that...

but for someone on a mission to breed malay or very typey serama (like me), what choices do we have other than keeping culls around..? i talked to a fellow breeder today, and like he explained that most super typey birds don't breed and that's why people keep some long backed breeders that produce type... but along with the typey birds that hatch, there are going to be a lot of culls...

but still... how are we ever going to get to our breeding goals if we're just swimming in culls...? working with culls is only going to give you more culls...

So you think if you keep the best, typiest birds, all you are going to get is good typey birds? I've not heard of anyone keeping long-backed birds to increase fertility, but I do know that the bigger ones are better at producing. If all you keep are the tiniest of the tiny you will soon run out of breedable stock.

 

[gumbii]

Quote:
yeah i saw that...

but for someone on a mission to breed malay or very typey serama (like me), what choices do we have other than keeping culls around..? i talked to a fellow breeder today, and like he explained that most super typey birds don't breed and that's why people keep some long backed breeders that produce type... but along with the typey birds that hatch, there are going to be a lot of culls...

but still... how are we ever going to get to our breeding goals if we're just swimming in culls...? working with culls is only going to give you more culls...

So you think if you keep the best, typiest birds, all you are going to get is good typey birds? I've not heard of anyone keeping long-backed birds to increase fertility, but I do know that the bigger ones are better at producing. If all you keep are the tiniest of the tiny you will soon run out of breedable stock.

long back is a bigger bird than one that has a short back...

and keeping the best should be our goal... right...??

like, if mr sebright didn't try to achieve his goals, he would've just made a silver laced OEGB instead of a hen feathered silver sebright... if i don't try, i'll never achieve my goals...


also, i always hear jerry saying that he throws his culls to the gators... i think that's dope... if i had a huge snake, i would do the same thing... but i don't...

 

[shelleyd2008]

This is a post by Jerry on the SCNA:

"C" cocks with exceptional type have a place in my breeding pens. I have them but don't bother breeding A's. Breed "B" and you get your A's from that, along with C's. OK to breed B cocks to C hens, they will give B and C and an occasional D. I'm alway culling. The first cull is normally the heaviest, but I don't get rid of the birds unless they have obvious flaws. My rejects are placed in 1 of 4 different cull pen and allowed to mature and prove themselves. At least 1/4 of these first rejects end up being pulled from the cull pens, some make it into my breeding program, others are sold or given away. If you're in doubt cull, but give them at least a year before you do. Good luck

I'd think that if HE doesn't hard-cull them until at least a year then other breeders should not as well. Just my 2¢

ETA: I've never seen Jerry say he throws his culls to the gators, but I haven't been going on there much until recently.​

 

[destiny_56085]

Well I don't know a thing about seramas, but I do raise a fair number of silkies every year. You start at day 1 with them. Look for single combs, correct number of toes (no 4 toers or 6th claws), double toenails, if all toenails are present, duckfoot, 4/5th toe spacing, skin color on body/comb, feathering at least to the middle toe, if there are pigment holes and/or light toenails on the feet. These are the automatic pet quality ones that you destroy or sell very cheaply just to get rid of them. Then you go back through at about 3-5 months again. You start weeding out medicre caliber cockerels so you aren't stuck with a ton of them later on. You look again at eye color, skin color, comb shape, if the comb is getting horns off it, is too lumpy, etc. Look at wings for twisted or loose primaries. You can start to see if some mis-color in the hackles is showing up. Kind of get an idea of overall type at this stage. Then you kick the birds that make the cut into a growout pen and ignore them til they are 8-10 months old. If you keep looking at them in that time period, they will literally drive you nuts and having you change your mind every day on them. This is the gangly awkward that they need to get past before they truly blossom. The only things I cull for then is if any with miscolor in the hackles appear.

As for getting rid of silkies, it doesn't seem to be a problem. You have enough people that just want fluffy pets and usually the culls from a breeder are still miles ahead of most hatchery stock. We also have a huge Asian population...they will pay $5-8 for a started bird and $10-15 for anything almost full grown. If you are an honest seller and present your stock well at shows, you will have people finding you for stock.

 

[sourland]

Producing the best should be your goal not necessarily just keeping the best. Best X best does not always = best. Some birds that are not phenotypically the best may be your best producers. Two factors are involved: experience with the breed/family and trial and error. I agree sith Shelly. If you do not have patience with a slow maturing (basically new) breed, why not try something else?

 

[gumbii]

Quote:
hmm... again at 3-5 months... i just kind of pains me to cull at that age... at that age, they see me as their parent and provider... they show a bit of affection too... but then again, the LF cochin are sweet and affectionate, and i still get to chew on 'dem bones... LOL... i guess i'm just gonna nip it in the bud i guess... you gotta do what you gotta do...

Quote:
i have patience... that isn't what this thread was supposed to be about... i guess i'm gonna have to wait for them to be a year before i cut their heads off... i was going to build some grow out pens, but i guess one is going to be a serama cull pen... lame... such a waste of room...

and i just finished discussing how best x best doesn't = best all the time... i spent all day at joey's house with the rest of almost all of the golden state serama council...