Day 21 or 22 for hens clutch, have concerns, appreciate advice!

[oneoftheflock4]

Hey all, need some timely advice. We’re at hatching due date, and I'm worried I may have messed things up for her eggs the other day by disturbing and cleaning her nest and pen area.

Her nest was smelling really bad in recent days and the other day when she was off her nest for a bit I thought I'd investigate and maybe clean up her crate to prepare for baby chicks. I found at the bottom of her nest was a broken egg mess with some foul bedding and some maggots on a few eggs eating the mess. Found the smell. It was disgusting and prompted me to do a thorough emergency clean of all the nesting materials and wiped the maggots off the shells.

I was gentle with handling the eggs but two things I wasn't aware of until after I did this was 1) not rotating the eggs close to their hatch date because chicks are getting g into their positions and 2) humidity needs. So I am worried I may not have moved the eggs back onto the sides as I found them and in cleaning their nest altered the humidity too much to where they might be too dry to hatch properly. The nest had been wet and gross underneath and I replaced the hay with all dry, in my inexperience thinking this was a better environment for chicks to hatch into. I had read some advice of course leading up to this but hadn't learned about these points.

After I cleaned her crate, her roo's were clearly upset with me and concerned, that's when I did more research and realized my mistakes.

So today (*yesterday now) is the big expecting day. They all seem to know and are waiting and guarding the process. I may be projecting but it seems like there is some nervousness or concern. It’s late afternoon and so far haven’t heard or seen any evidence of any chicks though hen has positioned herself differently and is making some quiet cooing noises like she's talking to her eggs.

Does anyone have any advice or thoughts regarding my interventions yesterday and if there is anything I need to look out for today and should do to help considering?

I will be so upset if I messed things up for her and these chicks by trying to help, things had been going really well.

Fyi, she has a large clutch too, and I haven't candaled them since confirming they were all fertilized after first week.

Thanks for reading and would appreciate any helpful advice asap!



**updates**
(Wednesday)
-After I cleaned the nest the day before yesterday things smelled much better. By last night, it was smelling pretty bad again.

-Clutch is due for hatching but so far haven’t heard any peeps or seen any chicks. I have heard a few instances of what sounded like pecking at egg shel. Also has sounded like hen is trying to softly communicate with chicks in eggs.

Last night before the roosting, her roosters didn’t want to leave her side and one entered her crate, mounted her on the nest, and kind of kicked her off her nest and then stood over her eggs for a moment. It was stressful but I got him to leave and was able to put her back on the nest for another night. Not sure if the chicks aren’t viable and they’re maybe trying to help encourage her to abandon or just missing her? Trying to figure out best course from here. From what I last saw eggs were all still intact, not much noise or action happening. I think its day 21 or 22.

The roosters might be a bit hormonally crazy rn because shes been busy for a few weeks and she’s their only hen. Was hoping to change that with this clutch!

Appreciate any advice, thanks y’all

 

[DobieLover]

I may be projecting but it seems like there is some nervousness or concern.

You are anthropomorphizing.

herself differently and is making some quiet cooing noises like she's talking to her eggs.

They do 'talk' to the eggs during hatch.

By last night, it was smelling pretty bad again.

Did you check the hen for flystrike?

mounted her on the nest

This is abhorrent behavior. You really should keep all but the best rooster away from her. Even with the pullets you may get from the hatch, you will still have the cockerels to rehome. I would seriously reconsider the number of males you are keeping. How old are they?

she’s their only hen

This is a bad situation for her to be in.

 

[Ridgerunner]

1) not rotating the eggs close to their hatch date because chicks are getting g into their positions

A lot of people on this forum I think highly of really freak out about that. I don't. To me the chick's universe is the inside of the egg. It is getting into position to poke a hole into the air cell, that's called internal pip. Even if the egg rolls the air cell is in the same position relative to the chick. If you stand the egg so the pointy side is up I'd think that would not be good. But if it is just rolled a little I don't worry at all.

2) humidity needs.

The bedding does not control that. Some people put hydrometers under the broody and found that she can control that some. Leave that up to the broody to manage.

So today (*yesterday now) is the big expecting day.

Two things. Did you count the days correctly? You don't say "one" the day you put the eggs under the broody. It takes 24 hours for the eggs to have one day's worth of development so you say "one" the day after you start them. An easy way to check your counting is the day of the week you start them is the day of the week the 21 days are up. If you started them on a Tuesday then the 21 days are up on a Tuesday.

The other thing is that eggs do not always hatch at exactly 21 days, in an incubator or under a broody hen. It is pretty common for eggs to hatch a full 2 days early or two full days late. That 21 days is a general target. Try not to worry too much if they are a bit late. I said try, it's not that easy to not worry.

hen has positioned herself differently and is making some quiet cooing noises like she's talking to her eggs.

After they internal pip the chicks start talking to Mama and she talks back to them. It's part of the bonding process but also lets the hen know they are coming. It can take 24 hours or even more after internal pip until external pip, even longer for hatching. To me, this is an encouraging sign.

After I cleaned the nest the day before yesterday things smelled much better. By last night, it was smelling pretty bad again.

Cleaning the nest was the right thing to do. But with it stinking again it is possible bacteria got inside one or more eggs so you have some rotten eggs under the hen. This is dangerous, they can explode or leak and contaminate other eggs. I hate to do anything to bother a broody hen this late in incubation but if you can I'd remove each egg and sniff it. If it is rotten get rid of it. If it smells OK put it back under her.

I had that happen once. An egg broke in the nest and contaminated several of the other eggs. I did not get any to hatch. Hopefully you will have better luck.

 

[MountainWoman73]

Sound like you had a rotten egg explode. If it smells bad again I would be worried about others exploding. Eggs that are developing should be odorless. If it smells bad, it's been dead a while. Rotten egg goo getting on the outside of eggs can cause bacterial infections in the other developing chicks and cause them to die too.

You said she has a large clutch. Sometimes this causes problems as well. If she can't cover them all, the ones on the outside will get cold and die. Then, she'll rearrange the eggs, and good ones from the middle will roll to the outside and die too.

I hope you get some that hatch, but the whole situation doesn't sound great. I would start looking for a source for a couple day old chicks if you can find them for her, or get your broody jail ready.

 

[oneoftheflock4]

You are anthropomorphizing.

They do 'talk' to the eggs during hatch.

Did you check the hen for flystrike?

This is abhorrent behavior. You really should keep all but the best rooster away from her. Even with the pullets you may get from the hatch, you will still have the cockerels to rehome. I would seriously reconsider the number of males you are keeping. How old are they?

This is a bad situation for her to be in.

Thanks for your input. I did read about fly strike and looked her over (though not super closely yet) and didn’t see any signs of fly strike or maggots on her. They were way down under the eggs and hay at the bottom of the crate where some old broken egg remnants were found.

Once we get through the the next day or so and see if any chicks hatch I’ll do a more close exam of her health.

For now she is secured in a crate and the roosters can’t get in and disturb her again.

I know it’s not a great situation for any of them to be such a small flock and thats why I allowed them to form a clutch and try to hatch instead of taking their eggs for myself. I recently adopted them to try and help change their longer term situation for the better.

They had been a larger flock with more hens the other hens were picked off my raptors leaving just the one hen and my poor aloha roo neurotically protective. The other rooster is up and coming and badly needs some hens to work.

If this hatching doesn’t work out, I’ll be working on another solution to expand their flock. I’ve heard inteoducing new chickens can be stressful for them too, and they’re in a new environment, so was trying to help them expand more naturally as they’ve been inclined to do so.

Thanks again!

 

[oneoftheflock4]

A lot of people on this forum I think highly of really freak out about that. I don't. To me the chick's universe is the inside of the egg. It is getting into position to poke a hole into the air cell, that's called internal pip. Even if the egg rolls the air cell is in the same position relative to the chick. If you stand the egg so the pointy side is up I'd think that would not be good. But if it is just rolled a little I don't worry at all.


The bedding does not control that. Some people put hydrometers under the broody and found that she can control that some. Leave that up to the broody to manage.


Two things. Did you count the days correctly? You don't say "one" the day you put the eggs under the broody. It takes 24 hours for the eggs to have one day's worth of development so you say "one" the day after you start them. An easy way to check your counting is the day of the week you start them is the day of the week the 21 days are up. If you started them on a Tuesday then the 21 days are up on a Tuesday.

The other thing is that eggs do not always hatch at exactly 21 days, in an incubator or under a broody hen. It is pretty common for eggs to hatch a full 2 days early or two full days late. That 21 days is a general target. Try not to worry too much if they are a bit late. I said try, it's not that easy to not worry.


After they internal pip the chicks start talking to Mama and she talks back to them. It's part of the bonding process but also lets the hen know they are coming. It can take 24 hours or even more after internal pip until external pip, even longer for hatching. To me, this is an encouraging sign.


Cleaning the nest was the right thing to do. But with it stinking again it is possible bacteria got inside one or more eggs so you have some rotten eggs under the hen. This is dangerous, they can explode or leak and contaminate other eggs. I hate to do anything to bother a broody hen this late in incubation but if you can I'd remove each egg and sniff it. If it is rotten get rid of it. If it smells OK put it back under her.

I had that happen once. An egg broke in the nest and contaminated several of the other eggs. I did not get any to hatch. Hopefully you will have better luck.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. Appreciate the help and encouragement!

I will try not to panic, maybe they’re just not quite ready.

There seems to be less of a smell now so wondering if what I was smelling was a nearby fresh broody poop. Omg they are something fierce.

She is so focused right now I don’t want to disturb her to investigate but if the smell returns or worsens I’ll find a way to check. I got a glance at the nest when she was up for a moment yesterday and didn't see any visibly cracked or broken eggs then.

Thanks again and for the hopeful wishes. I hope I can share good news later but we’ll see. Definitely a learning opportunity.

 

[oneoftheflock4]

Sound like you had a rotten egg explode. If it smells bad again I would be worried about others exploding. Eggs that are developing should be odorless. If it smells bad, it's been dead a while. Rotten egg goo getting on the outside of eggs can cause bacterial infections in the other developing chicks and cause them to die too.

You said she has a large clutch. Sometimes this causes problems as well. If she can't cover them all, the ones on the outside will get cold and die. Then, she'll rearrange the eggs, and good ones from the middle will roll to the outside and die too.

I hope you get some that hatch, but the whole situation doesn't sound great. I would start looking for a source for a couple day old chicks if you can find them for her, or get your broody jail ready.

Thanks so much for your advice. Hadn’t considered looking for some other chicks as a back up for her yet, that’s a great idea.

I did just gently pick up/move and visually inspect every egg a couple days ago when I cleaned the nest. They all looked and felt pretty much the same externally. Still warm from mamma. They were all a little dirty and a few had a few maggots underneath eating the broken egg remnants. Otherwise none looked cracked or seemed to smell particularly bad? When I cleaned the gunk at the bottom of the crate that helped the smell a lot initially which gave me hope.

some will make it and none explode!

 

[oneoftheflock4]

Sound like you had a rotten egg explode. If it smells bad again I would be worried about others exploding. Eggs that are developing should be odorless. If it smells bad, it's been dead a while. Rotten egg goo getting on the outside of eggs can cause bacterial infections in the other developing chicks and cause them to die too.

You said she has a large clutch. Sometimes this causes problems as well. If she can't cover them all, the ones on the outside will get cold and die. Then, she'll rearrange the eggs, and good ones from the middle will roll to the outside and die too.

I hope you get some that hatch, but the whole situation doesn't sound great. I would start looking for a source for a couple day old chicks if you can find them for her, or get your broody jail ready.

…Wait, whats a broody jail? Please explain?

 

[MountainWoman73]

…Wait, whats a broody jail? Please explain?

She won't stop being broody on her own if nothing hatches. She will likely keep going to the nest even if the eggs are taken away. At a certain point it becomes bad for their health.

A broody jail is a cage or enclosure with a wire bottom and no nesting or bedding material inside. A broody hen should be put inside with her own food and water and not let out for any reason for a minimum of 3 days. Sometimes it takes a little longer. If you let her out and she returns to her nest after 3 days, put her back for 2 days. This process is called "breaking" a broody.

 

[oneoftheflock4]

She won't stop being broody on her own if nothing hatches. She will likely keep going to the nest even if the eggs are taken away. At a certain point it becomes bad for their health.

A broody jail is a cage or enclosure with a wire bottom and no nesting or bedding material inside. A broody hen should be put inside with her own food and water and not let out for any reason for a minimum of 3 days. Sometimes it takes a little longer. If you let her out and she returns to her nest after 3 days, put her back for 2 days. This process is called "breaking" a broody.

Okay, thanks. I have heard that about broody hens and appreciate the advice for managing this, super helpful.

I was able to get a look just now at the current nest. There are definitely fewer eggs than she started with and than I’ve found broken. Maybe some haven’t made it and she’s pushed these down into the hay and I can’t see them. There is one that tried to hatch but looks motionless. It’s still warm Would you be willing to look at a photo and tell me what you think, if it’s gone? Maybe it’s just early and needs to sit under mamma more today? I left it in the nest for her for now. I also have a photo of the nest as of this morning. Is this ‘normal’ dirty for a nest or too dirty? Sorry for the sad chick photos, but appreciate the help.

I’m searching for some baby chicks to purchase for her to help her out.