Discussion on Breeding up Hatchery Quality Birds.

[Kevin565]

I've seen this discussed a few times in the past but not in much depth. I would like to hear everyone's opinions on breeding up from Hatchery quality birds for better quality stock. Many people start off with Hatchery birds in the beginning and later decide they would like to tackle breeding on a more serious note. Obviously not everyone is willing to give up all of their birds to start over.

Do you believe they should worry more about the type or color of the specimens?

Do you believe a good quality drake or hen is more beneficial to keep around?

What are some traits that would automatically knock out a specimen from your breeding program?

What stage in a breeding do you believe is the best time for mixing in better quality Breeding Stock with Hatchery Stock?

Also any other input or personal experience would greatly be appreciated.

 

[Macro]

I'm interested in this topic as well. Sorry I can really add anything experience wise, but I would like to see what experiences other people have with breeding good quality birds.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

This is a hard subject since breeds all have different standards. So to try and same X would be a cull isn't fair since not all breeds conform to X.

Like our Khakis any white spotting, eye stripes and lacing of the feathers (females are faults) yellow bills also should go. To start with a production based bird and try and breed up would take generations of breeding culling severely (which many can't or don't like to do) and only keeping 1 maybe 2 off spring from hundreds of hatched stock. Most don't want to take on this endeavor, or don't have the space, and resources to tackle such a task.

I would always keep a quality pair over just a sub quality (drake/duck) with a quality mate.

 

[Kevin565]

Great points Celtic, I appreciate your input. Methods of breeding up will defiantly have to vary depending on the breed. I'm hoping someone has personal experience with the subject. I've seen it done in the Chicken sections a few times but obviously breeding ducks is much different.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

We started with utility Khaki, hubby wanted vigorous buggers with good laying. I have shown him pictures of quality Khakis and he has had me slowly hatching new blood lines and adding in better birds. 2013 will be there second year here, we have some deffinet improvements this time on the drakes, with 2 out of the 300 we hatch (20 we kept back) being held for breeding. We still have feather lacing, but now have two girls without it too. So now we will work on removing as much lacing as we can on the next gen of girls.

 

[Kevin565]

Sounds like you defiantly had your work cut out for you. However, you defiantly sound like you know what your doing. I've seen pictures of your KCs and I must say they are stunning. It shows that with lots of breeding and hard work quality can defiantly be improved in someone's flock.

 

[CelticOaksFarm]

Yes it can, we are lucky to have room to hatch large numbers to pull keepers from.

Thank ou on the Khakis, they are very sweet ducks, but need more improvement.

 

[Fred's Hens]

THIS IS ABOUT CHICKENS.... Just to compare notes with the Duck folks.

The accepted wisdom is that "breeding up" hatchery stock to SOP or show levels is just about impossible. The needed DNA is just too muddied and/or missing. After 15 years of trying, which would tax the patience of Job, you'd still be disappointed, I'm afraid. If you need/want SOP birds, save yourself all the time, headache, money and work and just go get a trio of top quality birds and begin there. That's just the straight poop.

Now, breeding up hatchery stock is done, and yes, we've done it for years. Yes, you can certainly select the very best of your hatchery birds, and selecting just a few, from a large group from which to choose gives you a better starting point. It is challenging, but one can hatch 50 chicks each year from a breeding pen of a cock over the three best hens. Of those 50 chicks, only take back to the following year's breeding pen the very select 2 or 3 birds. With patience and breeding knowledge, you have the potential to eventually make some some really nice birds. It takes time, knowledge, good fortune, money, work, patience and one must select very carefully.

Large pen breeding would only produce more the same, over and over again.

 

[aoxa]

THIS IS ABOUT CHICKENS.... Just to compare notes with the Duck folks.

The accepted wisdom is that "breeding up" hatchery stock to SOP or show levels is just about impossible.  The needed DNA is just too muddied and/or missing. After 15 years of trying, which would tax the patience of Job, you'd still be disappointed, I'm afraid.  If you need/want SOP birds, save yourself all the time, headache, money and work and just go get a trio of top quality birds and begin there.  That's just the straight poop.

Now, breeding up hatchery stock is done, and yes, we've done it for years.  Yes, you can certainly select the very best of your hatchery birds, and selecting just a few, from a large group from which to choose gives you a better starting point.  It is challenging, but one can hatch 50 chicks each year from a breeding pen of a cock over the three best hens.  Of those 50 chicks, only take back to the following year's breeding pen the very select 2 or 3 birds.  With patience and breeding knowledge, you have the potential to eventually make some some really nice birds.  It takes time, knowledge, good fortune, money, work, patience and one must select very carefully.  

Large pen breeding would only produce more the same, over and over again.

I'd like to see this more thoroughly discussed with chickens. I just can't imagine perfecting a hatchery silkie, barred rock or Rhode Island red from ONLY hatchery stock. What if you put a really good quality rooster over hatchery hens? Could you improve it a little that way?

The same idea as above for ducks. A really nice drake over hatchery hens, or vice versa.

 

[Kevin565]

Yes it can, we are lucky to have room to hatch large numbers to pull keepers from.
Thank ou on the Khakis, they are very sweet ducks, but need more improvement.

Sounds like this is something that should be left to people with plenty of space. Anyone in a Urban area should probably just stick to buying higher quality birds.

THIS IS ABOUT CHICKENS.... Just to compare notes with the Duck folks.

The accepted wisdom is that "breeding up" hatchery stock to SOP or show levels is just about impossible. The needed DNA is just too muddied and/or missing. After 15 years of trying, which would tax the patience of Job, you'd still be disappointed, I'm afraid. If you need/want SOP birds, save yourself all the time, headache, money and work and just go get a trio of top quality birds and begin there. That's just the straight poop.

Now, breeding up hatchery stock is done, and yes, we've done it for years. Yes, you can certainly select the very best of your hatchery birds, and selecting just a few, from a large group from which to choose gives you a better starting point. It is challenging, but one can hatch 50 chicks each year from a breeding pen of a cock over the three best hens. Of those 50 chicks, only take back to the following year's breeding pen the very select 2 or 3 birds. With patience and breeding knowledge, you have the potential to eventually make some some really nice birds. It takes time, knowledge, good fortune, money, work, patience and one must select very carefully.

Large pen breeding would only produce more the same, over and over again.

Thanks for your insight Fred it was very detailed and defiantly food for thought.