Dominique/Brown Leghorn Cross

[gwhipps]

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So back to my original question...and keeping stated goal in mind. Should I use the male Dom or the male BL or both.

I assume you will breeding back to pure dominique to restore dominique appearance. I will be making a single backcross into the best male dominiques I can get. This being done to retain the W (female coding) chromosome. The W chromosome might have some of the uniquely dominique traits you want to keep, so if female F1 offspring to be bred back into doms, then I would use dom as dam.

My opinion is to avoid making F1 x F1 matings to select back into your desired product unless you plan on working with very large numbers of brood stock.

So BL male to female Dom and then back with F1 female to the best Dom male possible. After that stay with dom only breeding? Correct? If I've got it right please verify. Thank you so much for your guidance. This genetic stuff sure does get confusing at times.

 

[RAREROO]

Quote:
So back to my original question...and keeping stated goal in mind. Should I use the male Dom or the male BL or both.

I assume you will breeding back to pure dominique to restore dominique appearance. I will be making a single backcross into the best male dominiques I can get. This being done to retain the W (female coding) chromosome. The W chromosome might have some of the uniquely dominique traits you want to keep, so if female F1 offspring to be bred back into doms, then I would use dom as dam.

My opinion is to avoid making F1 x F1 matings to select back into your desired product unless you plan on working with very large numbers of brood stock.

Haha you posted as I was typing but thats very similar to what I said. I just sugested using the Dom as the father for the out cross becuase he would produce barred F1 daughters , which would be bred back to a pure Dom male and all of their male offspring would be Homozygous barred, were as using the Dom as the dam in the out cross would give non barred females and when bred to the pure Dom male, their male offspring would only have one copy of barring and would be Heterozygous making him darker colored like the females and harder to sex early on, and if he was bred back to pure dom hens, then half of his female offspring would not be barred, So using the Dom as the sire for the out cross and the back cross eliminates the issues that would be incountered when using Het barred males.

 

[RAREROO]

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But in addition, if you do as centrarchid said and only use a pure Dom roo every time you would basicly eliminate the chance of Het barred roos after the second generation.

 

[gwhipps]

By Jove I think I got it. Male Dom on female BL and the F1 females back to great Dominiuque males. I get birds that look like Dominiques and hopefully will lay more and bigger brown eggs. Yeah. Thank to all for all the advice. I will try this in the spring. If I STILL don't have it right maybe someone can draw me pictures.LOL

 

[centrarchid]

gwhipps,

Something I will stress is that more is needed than just making crosses. You will need to select. The selection process will hopefully take you in direction you want to go. Very likely a fairly large number of breeders will need to be used to found each generation. This means not just a large number of chicks from a small number of hens. You will also have same problem I may have if cuckoo color to be restored, breeding out all those alleles at all those loci that code for browns and reds. Get ready to put some generations of selection into that.

 

[gwhipps]

Sounds as though we both have a long way to go. I know that it will take quite a while to accomplish my goals . As a friend one time told me" It just ain't no hill for a high stepper" and with the help I received tonight I am planning on stepping High. I hope that you do too.

Thanks

 

[centrarchid]

Yes, we have a long way to go.

I am building four hen-houses for project, each capable of keeping 50 hens. This does not include cockhouse, a breeding pen enabling a single rooster to cover 12-18 hens (each teathered to her own blue barrel) and enable me to keep track of who the momma's are, plus pens and teather lines that from a distance will make my place look like a gamecock farm. Hardened facilities expected to last 30+ years. Only two breeds, not including games, to be kept on place long-term. I might sell eggs as well as POL pullets and cockerols as a money laundering scheme to hide losses (from wife). This going to be an investment, a heartache at times, but the balance fun!


You must plan a lot and be prepared to make changes, and keep records. Once you get up and going, make certain you have backup broodstock in case a disaster strikes. Each line of broodstock will be in at least two pens so that if one is lost, line likely to survive.

 

[RAREROO]

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Whoa, thats a pretty exstream set up, you'd probably scare someone away from even trying a project with all that. But of course if gwhipps just wants dominique looking birds with better laying and egg size, then it wouldnt need to be near that exstream. I dont think any of most of us project breeders go that far, my take on project breeding is a bit different. In my opinion it is more logical to have a large group to cull from to begin with, but cull down to only the BEST 2-4 hens and roo that are closest to what you are going for and hatch serveral from them and then select the same number of the best chicks from them. That is how must of us do it for breeding project colors and type. Breeding for productivity if that is gwhipps' goal, then its doesnt take as much effort, like hatcheries, they dont concern themselves with selecting birds that have the right type and color most of the time, they just select for production.

 

[smarsh2]

do a search for "smarsh2 white wyandotte" to see a pullet with a brown leghorn mother and a white wyandotte father. your cross will actually be quite similar using the brown leghorn for the mother. both roos have the silver gene that will grey of the offspring, but it will not get rid of the red on the breast which is a different gene than the rest of the red in the bird.

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
Whoa, thats a pretty exstream set up, you'd probably scare someone away from even trying a project with all that. But of course if gwhipps just wants dominique looking birds with better laying and egg size, then it wouldnt need to be near that exstream. I dont think any of most of us project breeders go that far, my take on project breeding is a bit different. In my opinion it is more logical to have a large group to cull from to begin with, but cull down to only the BEST 2-4 hens and roo that are closest to what you are going for and hatch serveral from them and then select the same number of the best chicks from them. That is how must of us do it for breeding project colors and type. Breeding for productivity if that is gwhipps' goal, then its doesnt take as much effort, like hatcheries, they dont concern themselves with selecting birds that have the right type and color most of the time, they just select for production.

The extreme needed to prevent inbreeding depression. Once flock is founding is complete, introductions of new blood will stop. In reality my strain will be made up of four lineages based on hen with 12 to 18 hens used as breeders for each generation / lineage. That means 48 to 72 hens will provide me on average 6+ chicks per hen per year to evaluate. This whole system will be a form of family selection versus line breeding, mass selection, and inbreeding systems.