:( Egg autopsy help please (***WARNING VERY GRAPHIC PICTURES***)

[Qualara]

Hi everyone, I had an egg that didn't make it to hatch. I'm devastated, I always get so attached to the babies I am hatching, especially ones I see moving the day before hatch. Just wondering if anyone can see what went wrong, so I don't make the same mistake again. This one was the only one to not hatch, I know it's a good hatch if 14 out of 15 hatch, but this one was doing well. Someone help?

These are very graphic:

 

[CherriesBrood]

Aww poor guy. What day was it for this one? Did it make a pip? It looks like it was going to start to try and hatch because it has its beak flipped up under its wing towards the shell.

 

[Qualara]

Aww poor guy.

What day was it for this one? Did it make a pip? It looks like it was going to start to try and hatch because it has it's beak flipped up under its wing towards the shell.

There was no pip, no internal pip either. But the day I saw the first pip on another egg I candled everyone, everyone was moving, so was this guy.

 

[CherriesBrood]

Hmm, maybe it wasn't a smart idea to candle them this late, because they can get shrink wrap if they don't have enough humidity, that's why they say lockdown from day 18 until they all hatch. What day did you candle them?

 

[Qualara]

Hmm, maybe it wasn't a smart idea to candle them this late, because they can get shrink wrap if they don't have enough humidity, that's why they say lockdown from day 18 until they all hatch. What day did you candle them?

I candled at day 18 and then on the day of hatch because it was the only one who hadn't pipped yet.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Hi there! First let me say, sorry to hear about the DIS chick. It's hard to loose them even when they never hatched. As a hands on hatcher, (one that opens frequently during hatch and will even candle at hatch time occasionally) rest assured that the chick not making it had nothing to do with anything you did. 14/15 hatched chicks validates that you did an awesome job of incubating, so pat yourself on the back. I don't usually candle after day 18 until the end of the hatch when I have a break in the action and just have to know if any unpipped eggs are still viable. Last hatch, I had a couple that were about 24 hours behind and those poor chicks were probably yelling at me the whole time cause I think I candled them 4 or 5 times until they finally pipped...lol

The theory behind not opening the bator at hatch pertains to pipped eggs and generally if you have adequate humidity even then the chances of compromise are lower than people might have you believe. If it wasn't I'd never have the successful hatches that I do. The key is in the humidity.

Now in regards to the DIS chick, 100% hatches are not the norm simply because we can not in general give 100% of the eggs the optimal conditions that they need because of the individual variables in each egg. If I had to make a guess where this one is concerned, this would be conclusion:
Chick has absorbed yolk and is in postion. Fully developed, healthy looking. However, there appers to be quite bit of excess fluid from the egg. This would leave me to believe that because of shell quality, that particular egg did not loose sufficent moisture and that is what caused the death. Chicks get into position (head under wing- beak up) around day 17 and yolk absorption generally takes place day 19-20, so that would make me think that death occured late day 20-21 ish.

I would further surmise that this egg was less porous/thicker shelled because it did not loose the moisture as fast as the rest. I have also read that the darker eggs have a harder time loosing moisture, I believe, due to the pigmentation. I have even heard of some BCM hatchers "sanding" the shells to help with moisture loss.

I'm by far no expert, but in my experience, that is the conclusion I would draw for myself.

Congrats on the 14 hatchers. Awesome rate!

 

[CherriesBrood]

Hmm, maybe it wasn't a smart idea to candle them this late, because they can get shrink wrap if they don't have enough humidity, that's why they say lockdown from day 18 until they all hatch. What day did you candle them?

I candled at day 18 and then on the day of hatch because it was the only one who hadn't pipped yet.

Hmm. Day 18 should be okay, I do mine on day 18, but sometimes mine hatch a day or two early than planned and that can be risky. I would not recommend opening the incubator after lockdown at all, unless you need to help a chick that hasn't zipped yet, or in your case to check and make sure the chick is still alive if it hasn't piped yet on hatching day.

This chick might have been an early hatcher and when you candled them all on day 18 it got shrink wrapped form not having enough humidity.
Or it could have just died from an infection, or it could have died for just no reason at all.

They say that their is all of late deaths in the incubation process sadly.

I'm very sorry that this one didn't make it at especially this state.

 

[Qualara]

Hi there! First let me say, sorry to hear about the DIS chick. It's hard to loose them even when they never hatched. As a hands on hatcher, (one that opens frequently during hatch and will even candle at hatch time occasionally) rest assured that the chick not making it had nothing to do with anything you did. 14/15 hatched chicks validates that you did an awesome job of incubating, so pat yourself on the back. I don't usually candle after day 18 until the end of the hatch when I have a break in the action and just have to know if any unpipped eggs are still viable. Last hatch, I had a couple that were about 24 hours behind and those poor chicks were probably yelling at me the whole time cause I think I candled them 4 or 5 times until they finally pipped...lol

The theory behind not opening the bator at hatch pertains to pipped eggs and generally if you have adequate humidity even then the chances of compromise are lower than people might have you believe. If it wasn't I'd never have the successful hatches that I do. The key is in the humidity.

Now in regards to the DIS chick, 100% hatches are not the norm simply because we can not in general give 100% of the eggs the optimal conditions that they need because of the individual variables in each egg. If I had to make a guess where this one is concerned, this would be conclusion:
Chick has absorbed yolk and is in postion. Fully developed, healthy looking. However, there appers to be quite bit of excess fluid from the egg. This would leave me to believe that because of shell quality, that particular egg did not loose sufficent moisture and that is what caused the death. Chicks get into position (head under wing- beak up) around day 17 and yolk absorption generally takes place day 19-20, so that would make me think that death occured late day 20-21 ish.

I would further surmise that this egg was less porous/thicker shelled because it did not loose the moisture as fast as the rest. I have also read that the darker eggs have a harder time loosing moisture, I believe, due to the pigmentation. I have even heard of some BCM hatchers "sanding" the shells to help with moisture loss.

I'm by far no expert, but in my experience, that is the conclusion I would draw for myself.

Congrats on the 14 hatchers. Awesome rate!

I have to say, I think you are right about the egg not loosing enough moisture. The air cell didn't change the entire time it was in the incubator, all the others did, but this one stayed very small, actually I don't think it went down at all. I didn't know what to do about it because all the others were loosing fine, and I didn't want to make it too dry for the other 14 chicks. I really think you are right about this.

 

[Qualara]

Hmm. Day 18 should be okay, I do mine on day 18, but sometimes mine hatch a day or two early than planned and that can be risky. I would not recommend opening the incubator after lockdown at all, unless you need to help a chick that hasn't zipped yet, or in your case to check and make sure the chick is still alive if it hasn't piped yet on hatching day.

This chick might have been an early hatcher and when you candled them all on day 18 it got shrink wrapped form not having enough humidity.
Or it could have just died from an infection, or it could have died for just no reason at all.

They say that their is all of late deaths in the incubation process sadly.

I'm very sorry that this one didn't make it at especially this state.

I think we figured it out, I think it had too much moisture and the air sack was too small.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

I have to say, I think you are right about the egg not loosing enough moisture. The air cell didn't change the entire time it was in the incubator, all the others did, but this one stayed very small, actually I don't think it went down at all. I didn't know what to do about it because all the others were loosing fine, and I didn't want to make it too dry for the other 14 chicks. I really think you are right about this.

There wasn't anything you could do. You always adjust to the majority of the eggs. You never want to risk the average for a just a couple as sad as it is. That's why we normally have a couple in the hatch that do not hatch, because there's always an egg or two that the variables such as porousity can't be accomodated.