Federal law usually trumps local. Might be a way to keep your birds...

[Briggadane]

I recently learned a way to protect my birds, and exempt myself from any local stupidity my rule makers think up. I had to make my poultry a "business" and report sales revenue to the IRS. After 3 years Uncle Sam considers my property under "agricultural use". My property taxes go down drastically. I no longer need local permits to build structures for my agriculture purposes, and local officials are forced to walk away or take it up with the IRS.

Now, even though I have to disclose that I make a minimum amount of income, there is no rule that I have to make a profit. So I'm not forced to pay taxes on the earnings. I do have to track expenses: equipment I buy, feed receipts, chick order receipts, etc, I feel it's worth it.

On a side note, I also called my State dept. of Agriculture and see what they offered to help me out. I found out that just by making an egg carton label for my "business" I could get a free "facility" inspection of my "processing" area and get state approval for sales outside just my home. Like if the corner mom and pop store/ gas station wants to see if LOCAL egg sales are worth business. And the inspector gave me even more info. By filling out a form, I could register as a "farm market" and offer more services. It was FREE. It took 5 minutes! I did it on the spot.
Between the time I called, and the appointment, I did name my business and register it with the State. That was my biggest cost. $125. Not much more than buying and shipping a batch of chicks...
I also looked up my state NPIP info and arranged for that. It's $50, chicken scratch LOL!
And registering my business with IRS took me 10 minutes, was FREE, gave me an EIN, and allows me to buy all my business supplies(equipment, poultry feed, etc) TAX EXEMPT!

I haven't found the downside. I love using laws to defeat other laws. But I'm evil that way.

I also follow the adage "hope for the best but plan for the worst".

There are very few things in life your the very first one to experience. The internet lets you search for the others who preceded you. Find the ones who got the outcome you want and see what you can do help yourself achieve your goal. And if possible, set yourself up to win any fight that may have to face BEFORE you have to face it.

That's my $.02
Hope it can help others.,.
Best wishes.

 

[DustyDave]

This sounds interesting considering many cities limit "livestock" to agriculture areas but allow "fowl" in residential only if not for business use.
Sounds like a question for the Farm To Consumer legal folks.

 

[Ridgerunner]

That’s an interesting take on it. I’m not a lawyer so I can’t speak with a lot of legal authority but I’d tread lightly. Has anyone actually taken it up with the IRS so you have a legal opinion? Your signature implies you can be pretty blunt so I’ll be blunt. Do you have any experience with that or is that just wishful thinking?

Federal law trumps local law when it apples. It doesn’t always apply. The constitution grants certain rights to the Federal government but many of these only apply to interstate commerce. Many things like this are left to the jurisdiction of the Individual states. Even if you are involved in interstate commerce there are often exemptions based on size so they don’t always apply.

States, counties, towns, or other legal jurisdictions can and usually do have more restrictions than federal laws. That’s allowed by the Constitution and upheld by the courts. Health laws and zoning laws are two areas you see this all the time. The federal government just does not have the authority to get involved in much stuff that happens within the individual states.

If you can make this work for you, more power to you. But with the constitutional limits on the Federal government I’d want a lot more legal assurances than what you gave to try something like this. I just can’t see the federal government trumping local zoning laws.

 

[enola]

Trying to skirt around the legalities to run a " business " in order to justify keeping livestock in a restricted area will more than likely get you a date with an IRS auditor. So make sure you have ALL of your paper work in order.

 

[Briggadane]

I was attempting to avoid "legal" chatter and just pose an option for some of the folks to look into. Each state/city/village/township/etc will differ. Its why I wrote it from what I was able to accomplish for ME. It wont work for everyone. I know that. I also know, that being a lawyer or not, every municipality in every state will not have jurisdiction with every lawyer from ANY state. Its only a post to get folks thinking of ways that MIGHT work for them.

And yes, It does work for my situation. My township does not cover what I am doing now. I also know that my town has been talking about merging with 2 other nearby cities for 40 years. If that ever happens, I am set up to avoid issues with what I have here. I thought ahead. I also covered interstate commerce for MY state by involving other govt. entities(NPIP). Everyone, everywhere WILL be different. I'm not giving advice. I stating what "I" did. IF it works for me, it COULD work for other. Hence my caveat:

"Find the ones who got the outcome you want and see what you can do help yourself achieve your goal. And if possible, set yourself up to win any fight that (you) may have to face BEFORE you have to face it."

Please folks, if your going to naysay, do so in a way that will ADD to folks achieving something, and not making them want to avoid a hassle that may not exist. I know my attitude of positive thinking can rub the wrong way on some, but what about those it can work for?

I'm not skirting around anything, I'm using what exists. I actually sat down and pulled up city, county, state and federal ordinances and laws. Mine, as most, are online. Yes, I can speak legalese, as well as Latin, to know what it means. But even so, most of the codes and laws come with glossaries for understanding. There was very little to find. After you do so for yourself, please reply. I found it fun, but even if you dont, its still interesting and stuff any poultry keeper should know.

I also found by making calls to each and every government office that had something I needed to use, that they are VERY helpful. They informed me what it took to be on the correct side of my laws, where I needed to go for things not covered by one department, and who to talk to with another. Most times they transferred me directly to who I needed. I found out that the laws/rules etc for my state are here to HELP me, not set me up for failure. In some cases I needed to make small changes or set something up different from what I had.

For instance, I am allowed to sell my eggs from home, and its legal FOR MY STATE to reuse clean egg cartons, but I need to "obscure" the old sellers name and address, pack dates and such. THEY told ME how to do it! The inspector actually told me how others had done it and how to SAVE money. Huh, imagine talking to the actual folks who enforce laws, and finding ways to meet those laws. And imagine my surprise that they were taking the time to talk to me, a person who just wanted to keep a small flock of birds for eggs.
I was incredulous when they asked if I knew I was allowed to do other things from my home, and that it was covered by the SAME inspector that was coming to my home any way to verify my sink was clean and sanitary for egg processing! Well, why wouldnt I want to let the folks here know they had resources of their own to use! I dont need to be a lawyer to do this. No one does. You just need to do a little reading and make a few calls. Yes, I have to do a few things I didnt know about, but MY GOVERNMENT actually was walking me through the process. Maybe because I make it a point to be pleasant on the phone, and was sincere in thanking them for their help. I'm sure not may people do where these people are concerned.

I always try to look at situations from the other persons point of view. Govt workers tend to get pooped on. They are treated as people who we look down on. And they feel it every day. I tried to make their time on the phone with me pleasant. They got to do their job, and got praise and "thanks" from the person they talked to. They had an excuse to be on the phone for as long as they could with someone who was being nice to THEM. They were encouraged to find ways to help me. The more they talked with someone pleasant, the more they wanted to. I learned ALOT!!! And its from people who KNOW!!

Any one know how to "blog" on BYC?

 

[enola]

I am not sure if you are considering me a naysayer, but, I am speaking from experience. My family farmed in WV, sheep, goats and a commercial rabbitry. Everything went smoothly since we had all the permits, signed all the necessary forms, collected all the necessary taxes, carried the necessary insurances. We actually started making a profit in year # 3. Then we added a kennel. The second year we filed taxes showing a profit from the farm/kennel combination, IRS invited us to visit them for an audit.

That is why I suggested being prepared for an audit.

 

[Briggadane]

Thats not naysaying! Thats being honest. Did you pass the audit? Was it anything beyond the "please explain..." stuff? I have no issues with being audited. I've had to do that at least 4 times so far. Once shortly after getting married, once when I filed taxes after opening a commercial day care, and 2 run of the mill audits. I actually got a refund on 2 of the audits. Didnt owe any taxes on the other two. All in all, I got no issues with IRS. I dont necessarily LIKE paying taxes, but every government does it. Its a necessary evil, lol.

Now, doing Jury Duty is another kettle of fish!

 

[enola]

Our tax preparer went with my husband. We EVERY piece of paper in order. Our tax guy left copies of EVERYTHING with the auditors. My husband came home very nervous. I can't remember how many days it was before we heard back, but everything was in order.

That's my 2 cents......

 

[DustyDave]

@Briggadane
I love what you're doing here and you're right, setting different levels government against each other tends to be the best defense on our level. We don't have have money to buy our own "justice."
Definitely interested to see using how the city responds if they come out are presented with the situation. Also, additional sources of family income are always welcome!!