Flame Golden pheasant

[Midnightman14]

Is there any solid origin story and genetic makeup known for this mutation? The only page that talks about them is not very well written and looking at the chicks and birds they seem to be a sport out of birds carrying or showing dark throat. I don't see much difference between them and am suspicious when people claim a new mutation in goldens because in today's world they're probably dressed up mongrels.

 

[007Sean]

Flame Goldens, (Chrysolophus pictus pictus infuscatus) are not a new mutation. Although they look like they are similar there are slight differences if you look closely.
Chrysolophus pictus pictus obsurus
has more phenotypic resemblances to Chrysolophus amherstiae, such as barring in the tail feathers, the dark ash throat and sometimes the green neck/breast feathers of Chrysolophus amherstiae are present in the Dark Throated Goldens, not quite green and not all red but a mixture of the hues and has the lacing of the feathers of Lady Amherst, leading to the thinking it has under gone selective breeding, instead of a actual mutation.

Chrysolophus pictus pictus infuscatus or 'Flame Golden' and sometimes know as 'Salmon Golden' too! Is thought to be a true mutation of Chrysolophus pictus but the Dark Throated was also thought to be an original mutation, it has since it's discovery in 1860 been now thought to be a result of selective breeding, rather than a mutation.
Little scientific data supports these theories but unlike the Flame Golden, Dark Throated have 26 bp cytochrome gene changes between them and the true Golden pheasant, of which it was previously thought to have mutated from....not likely this could occur in just 137 years. It is also autosomal incomplete dominate.

The Flame Golden has no such gene changes and this is why it is thought to be a natural mutation. This may change as more scientific studies are done but for now this is the common thought process.

 

[drbird]

Flame Goldens, (Chrysolophus pictus pictus infuscatus) are not a new mutation. Although they look like they are similar there are slight differences if you look closely.
Chrysolophus pictus pictus obsurus
has more phenotypic resemblances to Chrysolophus amherstiae, such as barring in the tail feathers, the dark ash throat and sometimes the green neck/breast feathers of Chrysolophus amherstiae are present in the Dark Throated Goldens, not quite green and not all red but a mixture of the hues and has the lacing of the feathers of Lady Amherst, leading to the thinking it has under gone selective breeding, instead of a actual mutation.

Chrysolophus pictus pictus infuscatus or 'Flame Golden' and sometimes know as 'Salmon Golden' too! Is thought to be a true mutation of Chrysolophus pictus but the Dark Throated was also thought to be an original mutation, it has since it's discovery in 1860 been now thought to be a result of selective breeding, rather than a mutation.
Little scientific data supports these theories but unlike the Flame Golden, Dark Throated have 26 bp cytochrome gene changes between them and the true Golden pheasant, of which it was previously thought to have mutated from....not likely this could occur in just 137 years. It is also autosomal incomplete dominate.

The Flame Golden has no such gene changes and this is why it is thought to be a natural mutation. This may change as more scientific studies are done but for now this is the common thought process.

If you have no clue about genetics, please don't answer genetics questions. Almost none of your information is correct

 

[007Sean]

If you have no clue about genetics, please don't answer genetics questions. Almost none of your information is correct

Well, why don't you 'enlighten' instead of criticizing!

 

[Zenmonkey]

Well, this is an old thread, and I wasn't going to disturb it. But now that it has been....

@007Sean if I'm not mistaken, you were providing the text from what I think is a now missing (404) page describing the flame golden pheasant?

I don't see any decently labeled images online, except from a few that I believe are from the same source @007Sean quoted. Those seem not large enough for my eyes and a bit dark.

I do see one Canadian farm offering birds, but not shipped, local pick up only.

My personal guess is that it isn't really a thing.

 

[007Sean]

I read it somewhere, some time ago...it may have been that web site? Here's another link to a site about Flame Goldens...which I don't think are a mutation but a color variation of the Red Golden.
http://www.aviangenetics.com/PheasantRidge/flame-golden-pheasant.html

 

[Zenmonkey]

Huh, thank you for that. They moved that maybe? Same site, different page hasn't loaded for me for a while. I thought they just removed it.

http://aviangenetics.com/FlameGolden/red_golden_information.html

I'm not sure what the difference is between a mutation and a color variation, except that not all mutations would be a color variation. Maybe it's a failure on my part to understand, something that happens to me frequently.

Regarding a flame golden pheasant? It's interesting, and I'm not sure what to make of it. Pretty bird though.

 

[007Sean]

Huh, thank you for that. They moved that maybe? Same site, different page hasn't loaded for me for a while. I thought they just removed it.

http://aviangenetics.com/FlameGolden/red_golden_information.html

I'm not sure what the difference is between a mutation and a color variation, except that not all mutations would be a color variation. Maybe it's a failure on my part to understand, something that happens to me frequently.

Regarding a flame golden pheasant? It's interesting, and I'm not sure what to make of it. Pretty bird though.

The only true mutations are the Dark Throated Golden and the Yellow Golden or at least that's the most widely accepted theory but as I have mentioned before the DT is thought maybe to be the results of selective breeding, there are those that say it is a true mutation and those that think they are a results of selective breeding. I personally think the latter.
As far as understanding pheasant phenology and geneology your not alone. There isn't alot of research being done on pheasants, either True or Ornamental...no commercial value like chickens or turkeys.

ETA-- I hatched this one out of some shipped eggs...this one appears to be a flame golden but probably just a color variation, phenotypically but I have no idea as to the genotype. The eggs were sold as Red Goldens.
Note: dark feathering on face.

 

[007Sean]

Huh, thank you for that. They moved that maybe? Same site, different page hasn't loaded for me for a while. I thought they just removed it.

http://aviangenetics.com/FlameGolden/red_golden_information.html

I'm not sure what the difference is between a mutation and a color variation, except that not all mutations would be a color variation. Maybe it's a failure on my part to understand, something that happens to me frequently.

Regarding a flame golden pheasant? It's interesting, and I'm not sure what to make of it. Pretty bird though.

Here's another site that might interest you....it's on color variations of birds and mostly pertains to parrots, again, parrots are more valuable to the commercial hobbist.
https://academic.oup.com/jhered/article/112/5/395/6272461?login=false

 

[Zenmonkey]

Thank you so much! That should make for some excellent, if heavy, reading. I love it when they make those articles available to thy public. Too often all you get is an abstract.

That bird is beautiful, thank you for sharing it!

I'm a little fuzzy on what the difference is from a standard red golden? The pictures you've shown both of your bird and elsewhere seem to show a bird with a bit more red, some extra black markings, and less blues than the "common" red golden pheasant.