Flavor water to disguise antibiotic??

[Daysiechicks]

Hi all, I have a couple sick chicks. A vet told me to treat the whole flock, so I have been putting the prescribed amount of Oxytetracycline in their water. Well, they refuse to drink the water. I have even made sure that was their only water source, but they still refuse to drink it. I'm afraid they are going to dehydrate. I even tried doing half of the amount to try to dilute the taste. Still nothing. Has anyone ever tried flavoring the water to disguise the taste of the antibiotics? Would this make them want flavored water all of the time?

p.s.. is it weird that my sickie has been sick ( runny nose, sneezing, smell, hasn't grown ) but none of the other chicks have gotten sick and she has been sick for about a month?

I hate to admit that I didnt know she was sick but the people that I got her from said it was normal for a chicken to sneeze. It wasn't until I saw all the posts on here that I realized she was ill. ( I'm a chicken newbie and still learning sooo much )

Thanks for any input

 

[emilyweck]

I'm sorry about your chicken problems. It is very strange that noone else has shown symptoms of the "cold" that your one girl has. I would search around on this site to see what you find. I currently have a girl that is wheezing and chirping. Sounds as if she has a chest cold. I have her on an antibiotic that I got at the feed store. I guess we will see how it goes.

In regards to the water....I haven't flavored it. I put my one hens antibiotic in her water and she drinks it. Hopefully someone will have good advice. Best of luck!

 

[threehorses]

I'd try apple juice if I were you. It won't interfere with the meds. Are you certain her problem isn't a vitamin deficiency? What are they eating exactly, and how old are they? Any yellow patches on the roof of her mouth?

I'm going to include an article below for some non-medicinal support methods you can use to stomp out respiratory illness. In the mean time, do NOT use any milk or yogurt products for her. But she will definitely need some sort of probiotics (living bacteria) because oxytetracycline will kill off the good bacteria and give her secondary fungal/yeast and diarrhea issues. IF she's already suffering a fungal problem (which would explain her being the only one with it - because of long term drainage causing fungal/yeast infections inside of her) then antibiotics will make things worse. So - probiotics for sure daily, just acidophilis capsules or something like Probios brand probiotics from the feed store.

Here's the article; let me know if you have any questions. I'll be glad to help in any way I can.

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TREATING RESPIRATORY ILLNESSES IN POULTRY by Nathalie Ross


When treating a respiratory illness in my chickens, no matter what the cause (fungal, environmental, bacteria, viral) I like to attack the problem from multiple angles at once: Medicinal, nutritional, environmental, and through supportive products.


Medicinal: This should be handled on an individual basis for each situation. The one bit of advice I would give is that if you DO treat for bacterial illness with antibiotics, be sure to use the correct antibiotic, the strongest you can get for that problem, for the full dosage and full duration. Never let them "sip", give for a short period, or give partial dosages. And leave Baytril as a last resort.

NUTRITIONAL/VITAMINS:
To help tackle a respiratory illness, I keep in mind that the body needs fuel to do its job. Not only is the bird still having to nourish itself to survive, but there's the extra stress of providing materials to fight the intruder - the pathogen causing the illness. There are certain nutrients that boost the immune system and increase healing for respiratory illnesses and I like to take full advantage of them. Anything that I can do to boost the chicken's immune system, I will do.

Vitamin A (and its precursor beta-carotene) is one of the weapons in my arsenal against respiratory illness. Vitamin A is a most important vitamin for ocular, mucus membrane, and respiratory health. It is so important to the chicken that a lack of sufficient vitamin A in the diet can actually CAUSE respiratory illness. So it's one of the first nutrients I make sure to supplement to an ill bird.

If the bird doesn't have caseous nodules (yellow-whitish pimples) in the inside of its eyelids, mouth, throat, etc, you can simply treat with a more broad spectrum oil type vitamin liquid. Because vitamin A is an oil vitamin, I feel that using oil or liquid/oil sources is more effective than dried sources. So I prefer a vitamin like PolyViSol baby vitamins (Enfamil brand) used in the individual bird's beak daily. Don't buy the iron-fortified, but the non-iron-fortified. You can find it in the vitamin section of many stores, including Walmart. For a chick, it's 1 drop in the beak for 7 days and then taper off. For a young or medium bird, 2 drops. For a larger bird, 3 drops.

If I'm treating a flock, I prefer to use fortified wheat germ oil, or cod liver oil, in a quickly eaten damp mash that I prepare for the birds daily. For the cod liver oil, depending on which kind you use you can use a very small amount in some crumbles that you will put on top of their feed or use it in a quickly eaten damp mash. For wheat germ oil, I mix a capful into a cup of feed and stir well. I think stir this into a half gallon of feed and give that three times a week on top of their other feed.

This takes care of A vitamins quite nicely.

The benefit of the polyvisol is that it also contains other vitamins helpful to the bird.

NUTRITIONAL/PROBIOTICS:

In all cases of illness or stress, I provide probiotics to my birds but particularly for respiratory illnesses. Probiotics are non-medicinal sources of living bacteria used to replenish the beneficial bacteria present in the avian digestive system. Good bacteria live in and 'colonize' the digestive tract, helping the bird to digest their foods, and additionally competing with bad bacteria/fungi for the digestive tract. Having a strong supply of beneficial bacteria not only keeps a flock more thrifty and vigorous, but will increase their resistance to digestive disease.

If you're not using a medicine whose active ingredients end in -cycline or -mycin (read the label), then you can use plain unflavored yogurt. Most yogurts in the US contain a source of living bacteria, Lactobacilli. (Make sure and read the label for "contains live cultures".) Lactobacillus acidophilus will colonize the gut of the chicken. Use 1 teaspoon per 6 chicks to 1 tablespoon per large adult fowl as a guiding dosage. It doesn't have to be exact, but you don't want to give something as great as a cup to birds. Although birds are normally less able to digest as many milk products as humans and mammals, yogurt contains less lactose and so is less upsetting to their system within reasonable use. The live bacteria as well as its D vitamin fortification and protein make it an inexpensive and worthy probiotic.

If you ARE using a -mycin of -cycline drug, then substitute with acidophilis capsules/tablets (the contents thereof), or with a prepared live probiotic for livestock such as Probios brand dispersible powder. The powders are often easier to sneak into treats to give to birds.

No probiotics should be given in the water, despite labeling. They're best given in a small amount of quickly eaten damp feed. Yogurt can be mixed with water, and then that mixture mixed with a few crumbled pellets of the bird's normal diet and that fed first thing in the morning. removing the feed 20 minutes before giving the healthful damp mash ensures that they're more interested in it. You can also hide other healthful ingredients in the same mash.

The reason this is so important for respiratory birds, even if not medicated, is that the ocular and nasal sinuses drain into the digestive tract through the opening in the roof of the bird's beak. The drainage can upset the bacterial flora of the gut and cause it to be reduced which leaves the bird more vulnerable to diarrhea and digestive secondary illnesses like yeast/fungus, and pathogenic bacteria.

NUTRITION/PROTEIN:
As ill birds are often reluctant to eat, sometimes I like to use boiled/mashed eggs as part of a daily damp mash to tempt them to at least eat the nutritional supplements I'm trying to give them daily. The extra protein helps birds who are healing to have a little more fuel.

SUPPORTIVE PRODUCTS/VETRX:
VetRx is an herbal based oil that is non-medicinal but very helpful to birds being treated for respiratory illness. The purpose of VetRx is to facilitate air flow through the sinuses of the bird, reduce mucus, and possibly reduce inflammation. If VetRx for poultry cannot be found, any other of the "species" of vetrx (rabbit, cagedbird, etc) can be used the same. If that cannot be found, Marshal Pet Peter Rabbit Rx is the same and can be found at many big-chain pet stores.

VetRx is best used to swab the upper respiratory area. Mix a few drops of very hot water and a few drops of VetRx in a cup. Stir well to cool the water while emulsifying the oil into the water. Use q-tips to apply to the bird: a new q-tip end for each individual spot, an absolutely new q-tip per each bird. The q-tip can be quite damp for all applications. Swab the nostrils (nares) well, press a q-tip into the cleft opening in the roof of the beak of the bird. Pressing gently there can sometimes cause the VetRx to bubble into the eye, which is acceptable. It's not necessary but a benefit. Use either some very dilute VetRx one drop in each eye or (my preference) simply swab near each tear duct. The box recommends using in the water so that when the birds drink, they treat their own beaks as the oil floats on top. This is an option; I rarely follow it as sometimes I use the water to give other things. You can, however, use it wherever the bird wipes their eyes on their feathers, or where they lay their head when they sleep.

A bird that can't breathe will not eat; A bird that will not eat will not heal. Bacteria generally hate oxygen, so we want air flowing all through the sinuses.

SUPPORTIVE PRODUCTS/OACV: If you're not medicating in the water, and if your birds have a lot of mucus in their throats (gurgling, coughing, etc) the you can use organic apple cider vinegar in their water during illness to help reduce mucus and help support digestive health. The dosage is always 1 teaspoon of OACV to one gallon of water. The reason for using the organic is that it's unfiltered and still contains some of the prebiotics and lactobacilli that will act in concert with your yogurt to promote digestive tract health. The pH of this solution will also correct the pH of the digestive tract (which, remember, is being bombarded by nasal secretions) so that it's more friendly for good bacteria, and UNfriendly for opportunistic fungus and bacteria. A correct pH facilitates good nutrient absorbtion and we do want our ill birds to get everything they can from their food. The reason for using organic is not philosophical, but because of its mode of manufacture; there's still some good left in it.

ENVIRONMENTAL/AIR FLOW:
All birds, because of their specialized respiratory system, are highly dependent on superior air quality and ventilation. Birds who have reduced breathing ability in respiratory illness are particularly dependent on good air. They should be kept as all birds are: in well ventilated but not drafty conditions with few fumes or odors in the air, in a non-dusty bedding. This is particularly true if you cannot rule out an environmental cause for illness (ammonia, mildew spores in the air, etc).

ENVIRONMENTAL/BIOSECURITY;
When you have multiple birds, the sick bird/flock should always be cared for after all the other chores are done. You want to reduce all changes of infecting other birds, or even challenging possibly exposed birds who aren't showing symptoms (yet). Isolate sick birds unless you intend to treat the flock. Then it really does help to isolate the sick birds so that they don't have to compete for feed. Keep something like overalls or a big man's shirt in the 'sick area' and put it on before handling the birds, taking it off before leaving the coop. Keep anti-bacterial gel in that area to wipe your hands as you leave so that you don't contaminate the doorknobs of your house. Of course, wash thoroughly when all chores are done. Be sure to disinfect all the feeders and waterers more often as the droplets of their respiratory exudates will be on feeders and waterers. If you have family or friends over, try to keep only one person handlng the sick flock and ask everyone never to go from the sick flock to the well.

I hope that these suggestions will help you when it comes time to treat your flock for respiratory illness. All suggestions have been used by me personally on everything from slight cases to extreme cases. They work well for me, and I hope that they will help you to bring your flock back to full health.

Thank you for taking the time to read my article and consider my suggestions.

Nathalie Ross
(Please do not reproduce without permission of the author. The author is not a veterinarian and always recommends a good qualified avian vet attend your ill birds first. No information is intended to supercede that of a qualified veterinarian.)
August 1, 2009

 

[Daysiechicks]

Threehorses
Wow! I can't thank you enough for your response. Thank you for your time and knowledge. I read through your article and and going to try your suggestions. I will let you know how it goes.
I have been so unbelievably impressed at the generosity and kindness in this "chicken community".
I LOVE chicken people!
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!
I'm trying to figure out how to send you a message, but so far have only figured out how to do a post. I hope you see this message...

 

[threehorses]

For messages, under each name there's a blue link called PM and one for EMAIL. I also put my email at the end of each of my posts in case someone wants to email me (which is easier to follow a conversation sometimes if they get complicated). So feel free any time you want to ask something - I'm right here.

I'm glad the information was helpful. That's what it's for as there were times I needed something like that and couldn't find anything.

And yes - this board is particularly helpful, it really is. It seems to be a bit of an oasis in the world.