Has anyone here mixed the genetics of meat birds with layers?

[jennywoolrich]

It's been pretty random and I don't recommend any specific breed over another. And my goals changed. In addition to meat I wanted green eggs, hens that often went broody, and certain colors/patterns. The breeds involved were Speckled Sussex, Buff Orpington, Black Australorp, Delaware, Buff Rock, and Ameraucana to get the green eggs. The Ameraucana were smaller than I'd have liked but I figure I overcame that in a couple of generations.

The more goals you have the more challenging it is. If my only goal had been meat I'd have used only one or two breeds and been careful where I got my starting stock, from breeders specializing in meat birds instead of egg laying and certainly not hatchery stock. But even hatchery stock can be improved by selective breeding.

Ian about to try crossing dark Cornish rooster with Americana, do you have any helpful suggestions for getting a good dual purpose blue gyegg layer

 

[ColtHandorf]

A guy inspired me to try. He's no longer on Byc or has poultry.
Thread 'Toad Raising.' https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/toad-raising.1152440/

I was about to link that thread. Glad you beat me to it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Ian about to try crossing dark Cornish rooster with Americana, do you have any helpful suggestions for getting a good dual purpose blue gyegg layer

In the first generation all pullets from that cross should lay blue or green eggs. The blue eggshell gene is dominant so you don't know when the hen has only blue eggshell genetics in future generations. So to get blue or green eggs only hatch blue or green eggs. It will take a few generations to get rid of the genetics for possible brown or white eggs but eventually you should get there.

Other than that, decide what traits you want and select your breeding chickens to have those traits. The males contribute genetics for egg laying but they don't lay eggs so you don't know what they are contributing. So select your breeding hens for egg laying. The females contribute genetics for meat qualities but most people concentrate on the boys for meat so select your males for meat qualities. The more traits you choose for the harder it is to get all of them in one chicken so do the best you can. Do not allow substandard chickens to breed.

 

[Klutch]

In my experience meat bird roosters are really hard on hens. They are big, bulky and lacking in breeding finesse.
If you want to breed your own meat birds I would pick and follow one of @Ridgerunner plans above.
I have been breeding my own meat mutts for years now. Although it's worked out well for us and I very much enjoy the breeding aspect of it, I've found it's actually a lot more work and more expensive than just buying broiler chicks each year.

Here's some of my broiler crosses. They are pretty hefty


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Geena,
I really like your birds, what genetics do have there.

 

[Geena]

Geena,
I really like your birds, what genetics do have there.

They are a blend of BBS Orpington, CornishX and Red Ranger.

 

[Torinik]

I'm sorry I came a bit late to this thread.
I have crossed a CX male over an Isa Brown layer hybrid.
I've been having fertility issues since F2. The cross and F1 went like a rocket, after that about 30% fertility and a lot of weak chicks.
F3 rooster was huge and disproportionaly wide. Unfortunately, he dropped dead on me, heart gave out I think. Almost ended my little experiment, but managed to get one rooster and one hen out of him.
His son did well, but was mean and very loud. Best rooster I ever ate, so far, though. But on the small side, 2.5 kg clean on the hook at a little over 1 year of age.
His offspring (F5) is particulary active and fiesty. They're only still chooks now, will have to see how they develop.

I started this experiment, so will keep going for as long as it lasts and see what I can learn.
Don't really know if it's worth the effort if the goal is to get meat on the table economically, I did a lot better with my brahmas in that respect. More fertility, more healthy strong birds, but slower growth compared to this cross.
If you can buy meatbirds and grow them, that's the most economical way to go. I've had issues with that around here, at times they're impossible to get. Hence the reason for giving this a try and see where I end up.

If, at some point, this fails, it's back to brahmas. They take about 9 months to butcher size, but I very rarely butcher anything before 6 months anyways. The meat on the cross is better, so hopefully I end up with something I can sustain and improve upon. My brahmas were quite gamey and had dark meat. Great for a coq-au-vin but not so for other dishes, I find. Maybe that's just my strain of brahmas, and other strains may have whiter meat, don't really know. Only had mine, that I bred a lot of (mostly leg) issues out of by the way.

Hope my report is a bit of a help. All in all they tend to get smaller and grow slower, although I have some huge hens walking around that lay an insane amount of eggs. I only just got to F5 now, so as far as my understanding goes this is where it really starts to steer your flock into the direction you want it to go.

 

[Cubaniton]

I'm sorry I came a bit late to this thread.
I have crossed a CX male over an Isa Brown layer hybrid.
I've been having fertility issues since F2. The cross and F1 went like a rocket, after that about 30% fertility and a lot of weak chicks.
F3 rooster was huge and disproportionaly wide. Unfortunately, he dropped dead on me, heart gave out I think. Almost ended my little experiment, but managed to get one rooster and one hen out of him.
His son did well, but was mean and very loud. Best rooster I ever ate, so far, though. But on the small side, 2.5 kg clean on the hook at a little over 1 year of age.
His offspring (F5) is particulary active and fiesty. They're only still chooks now, will have to see how they develop.

I started this experiment, so will keep going for as long as it lasts and see what I can learn.
Don't really know if it's worth the effort if the goal is to get meat on the table economically, I did a lot better with my brahmas in that respect. More fertility, more healthy strong birds, but slower growth compared to this cross.
If you can buy meatbirds and grow them, that's the most economical way to go. I've had issues with that around here, at times they're impossible to get. Hence the reason for giving this a try and see where I end up.

If, at some point, this fails, it's back to brahmas. They take about 9 months to butcher size, but I very rarely butcher anything before 6 months anyways. The meat on the cross is better, so hopefully I end up with something I can sustain and improve upon. My brahmas were quite gamey and had dark meat. Great for a coq-au-vin but not so for other dishes, I find. Maybe that's just my strain of brahmas, and other strains may have whiter meat, don't really know. Only had mine, that I bred a lot of (mostly leg) issues out of by the way.

Hope my report is a bit of a help. All in all they tend to get smaller and grow slower, although I have some huge hens walking around that lay an insane amount of eggs. I only just got to F5 now, so as far as my understanding goes this is where it really starts to steer your flock into the direction you want it to go.

In my opinion, where you went wrong was in starting with a Huge bird like the Cornish X and crossing it with a smaller hen such as the Isa Brown layer, if you had used one of your big Brahma hens, the egg production would not have been as good as with the Isa, but at least the size of the chicks would not had suffered as much. When trying to improve of a bird or any animal, start with parents which are closer to what your final product will be, two large parents will produce large off springs, and if one of the parents is an average layer or a good layer, then the chicks will retain some (not all) of those good qualities.

 

[Cubaniton]

Get yourself some chicks from a hatchery:

https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/jumbo_cornish_x_rocks.html

https://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/big_red_broiler.html

Raise them and cross them. To raise the Jumbo Cornish X Rocks to reproduction age, you must restrict their feed intake, for example, feed them all they can eat for the first 3 weeks, then starting on the 4th week, cut back to only feeding twice a day until they step aside, then on the 5th week, only once a day, until they step aside, and on the six week, calculate how much they were eating per bird on the 5th week, and reduce that amount somewhat and give them that once a day, and if you see that they are gaining weight and they look too fat, or their legs are spreading apart, then reduce the feed more and more, and keep track of how healthy they physically look, feel their breast, if it feels like the breast is starting to split, you are feeding them too much, hold back on the feed more until their breast feels flush or the breast bone is barely noticeable.

Important fact: In order to restrict the feed of the Jumbo Cornish X Rocks, you must keep them away from all sources of food, that means you have to keep them caged, or in some sort of enclosure, so they will only have access to the food that you provide.

The Big Red Broilers you can raise like any other chicken, just make sure they don't eat too much so that they can be healthy enough for reproduction and egg laying.

Once you have adult Jumbo Cornish X Rock roosters, cross them with the Big Red Broiler hens, and the main reason for doing this is because the Jumbo Cornish X Rock hens are not very good layers, you will be lucky to get a good amount of eggs form them, specially if they are on the heavy side (due to lack of feed restriction), so by crossing the Cornish X rooster to the Big Red hens, you will get chicks that will be better at laying than the Cornish X, and they will grow faster or should at least, than the Big Reds, then it will be up to you to select the largest of the chicks and keep them for reproduction, and through selective breeding (using only the biggest birds) you will be able to produce large fast growers which will also provide you with a usable amount of eggs per week. This project will take you around 8 months or so before you will have your first eggs of the crosses in an incubator, good luck.

 

[Aneury Sanchez]

I have rooster who's father was a broiler/ Cornish X and his mother was a high production brown layer like an isa brown. He grew faster than a layer but smaller than a full broiler good even size. The best thing i can say about the broiler genetics is his sons that are only 1/4 broiler still do get more breast meat than a pure layer.