Having issues integrating chickens!!!

[mdebrock]

So we had a flock of 18 chickens (including one rooster), mostly Rhode Island Reds with a few other breeds mixed in and decided to get more laying hens. We got 11 buff Orpingtons as pullets, and tried to integrate the flocks. It's been going terribly. The RIR's didn't love the pullets, we had awhile of them bickering, trying to establish a pecking order. Now, the Orpingtons are huge-about twice the size of the RIR's and the tables have turned. The RIR's and the original rooster try to keep the Orpingtons away from the food (though we have two waterers and feeders), and then all of a sudden, about 5 or 6 Orpingtons will attack a Red and peck and pull feathers out. We haven't seen blood yet, but the Buff's are so big and when the go after a Red, it's pretty gnarly to see. I'm pretty worried they're going to kill one another.

Also, one (or two) of the Buff Orpington's are starting to crow and are pretty aggressive it actually a rooster? Or just too many hens for the rooster that we have? And is there any hope that we can find peace?

We just today separated the crowing, aggressive Buff in a separate pen. I read that it may be important for the chickens to see each other, but not be in the same space-how important? The coops are pretty far away.

We are at a loss here. There is so much fighting it's hard for me to think they will work out a pecking order . . . at what point do you call it quits?

Please help!!!

 

[junebuggena]

If you post some pictures, we can help identify any cockerels.
How big is the coop/run?

 

[mdebrock]

I will try to post pictures soon! To my knowledge we have one rooster who is a Rhode Island Red, and one Orpington hen who is acting like a rooster. I will get pictures of her for sure.

The coop is about 36 sq. ft, the run is about 40 ft by 30ft. It's not stationary-we move the coop by tractor and have an electric fence that we set up around the coop every month or so. I feel like the coop is a little small for how many chickens we have currently, but I don't know for sure. the farm owner says he's had more chickens than this in that space. I grew up raising really, really, really free range chickens-so I'm not sure what works well in smaller spaces!

 

[junebuggena]

That coop is much too small. The general guideline is 4 sq ft per medium sized breed (Leghorn/Hamburg/Andalusians). Larger, dual purpose breeds need a minimum of 5 sq ft per bird. You can get away with having a coop that's a bit too small if the flock has access to an extra large covered run. The general guidelines for run space is a minimum of 10 sq ft per bird, larger breeds need more. But having too many birds in too small a space can be problematic in bad weather if it's their only shelter.
I would make the coop much larger than it is currently, and add a few more food and water stations.

 

[Mutt Farm]

I wouldn't call it quits...

but if my math is right, you are really tight for coop space. 36 sq ft for 29 birds is not ok even if they are all besties.. That might be contributing to the problem 60 sq ft is the minimum recommended for the coop for 30 birds. 40X30 run seems fine, but I read "and have an electric fence that we set up around the coop every month or so". Do they have access to 40X30 all day every day? If so, from your description, you'll need a coop twice as large and access to the run daily.That should make everyone peaceful. BO's are by nature such a docile breed.

 

[aart]

I will try to post pictures soon! To my knowledge we have one rooster who is a Rhode Island Red, and one Orpington hen who is acting like a rooster. I will get pictures of her for sure.

The coop is about 36 sq. ft, the run is about 40 ft by 30ft. It's not stationary-we move the coop by tractor and have an electric fence that we set up around the coop every month or so. I feel like the coop is a little small for how many chickens we have currently, but I don't know for sure. the farm owner says he's had more chickens than this in that space. I grew up raising really, really, really free range chickens-so I'm not sure what works well in smaller spaces!

36 sqft....so like a 6' x 6' coop?...too small for 18 and wwwwaaayyyy too small for 30.
30 could barely fit in there to roost at night.

Run area sounds great but is it predator proof enough for roosting?

Maybe another small movable coop would suffice for now?

 

[mdebrock]

Ok, let me clarify.

We have a 36 sq. ft coop that is basically for nightime roosting only. We open them every morning around 6am, and close them around 9 or 10 pm (we work on an organic CSA farm, so the hours are pretty regular). So during the day, they are basically all outside in the run where their water and food are, and foraging space. They don't really spend much time in the coop until it gets dark out. I've heard that there needs to be less coop space when the chickens don't spend much time aside from sleeping-is that true? Its still a small space, but they definitely spend all day, everyday outside. The fence is electric and hooked to a solar panel, and we move the entire coop and fence with a tractor every few weeks to a new location, so their run will have some fresh foraging opportunities.
The photo above is a chicken we separated because it seemed really aggressive, and might be crowing. A mix up and it's actually a rooster? All signs point to yes so far. But would love some input!
So far, from what I've read it sounds like setting up two different coops/runs for the competing old flock vs. new flock, and letting them see each other but not get at each other is a good tactic? At least for awhile before reintroducing them. Has anyone tried this after they've been living together for about two months? I am worried we let it go too long.

Thanks for ideas and input!

 

[junebuggena]

When you are trying to integrate two groups of chickens, the key to a smooth combining of flocks is space, both in the run and in the coop. And while they may spend most of the time outside of the coop most days, what happens when there is a storm? There isn't enough space in the coop for all of them to stay inside without there being some serious stress.
And yes, the Buff Orpington is a cockerel. He's got long, thin, male saddle feathers and a darker shade of buff on his wings.

 

[aart]

Ok, let me clarify.

We have a 36 sq. ft coop that is basically for nightime roosting only. We open them every morning around 6am, and close them around 9 or 10 pm (we work on an organic CSA farm, so the hours are pretty regular). So during the day, they are basically all outside in the run where their water and food are, and foraging space. They don't really spend much time in the coop until it gets dark out. I've heard that there needs to be less coop space when the chickens don't spend much time aside from sleeping-is that true? Its still a small space, but they definitely spend all day, everyday outside. The fence is electric and hooked to a solar panel, and we move the entire coop and fence with a tractor every few weeks to a new location, so their run will have some fresh foraging opportunities.
The photo above is a chicken we separated because it seemed really aggressive, and might be crowing. A mix up and it's actually a rooster? All signs point to yes so far. But would love some input!
So far, from what I've read it sounds like setting up two different coops/runs for the competing old flock vs. new flock, and letting them see each other but not get at each other is a good tactic? At least for awhile before reintroducing them. Has anyone tried this after they've been living together for about two months? I am worried we let it go too long.

Thanks for ideas and input!

Not really...and you still need enough roost length(1 foot per bird) with room to move around left over inside coop.
What is your climate? Extreme weather can keep them 'cooped up' for days where I live.


Yes, that's a cockerel, they are idiots when they first 'come of age' .....trying to mount everything and not really knowing how.

Time and space is the key to integration. You can still separate them and start the integration over so to speak.

Here's some notes I've taken on integration that I found to be very helpful.......
......take what applies or might help and ignore the rest.
See if any of them, or the links provided at the bottom, might offer some tips that will assist you in your situation:

Integration of new chickens into flock.

Consider medical quarantine:
BYC Medical Quarantine Article
Poultry Biosecurity
BYC 'medical quarantine' search

Confine new birds within sight but physically segregated from older/existing birds for several weeks, so they can see and get used to each other but not physically interact. Integrating new birds of equal size works best.

For smaller chicks I used a large wire dog crate right in the coop for the smallers. I removed the crate door and put up a piece of wire fencing over the opening and bent up one corner just enough for the smallers to fit thru but the biggers could not. Feed and water inside the crate for the smallers. Make sure the smallers know how to get in and out of the crate opening before exposing them to the olders. this worked out great for me, by the time the crate was too small for the them to roost in there(about 3 weeks), they had pretty much integrated themselves to the olders.

If you have too many smallers to fit in a crate you can partition off part of the coop with a wire wall and make the same openings for smallers escape.


The more space, the better. Birds will peck to establish dominance, the pecked bird needs space to get away. As long as there's no blood drawn and/or new bird is not trapped/pinned down, let them work it out. Every time you interfere or remove new birds, they'll have to start the pecking order thing all over again.

Multiple feed/water stations. Dominance issues are most often carried out over sustenance, more stations lessens the frequency of that issue.

Places for the new birds to hide out of line of sight and/or up and away from any bully birds.

In adjacent runs, spread scratch grains along the dividing mesh, best of mesh is just big enough for birds to stick their head thru, so they get used to eating together.

Another option, if possible, is to put all birds in a new coop and run, this takes the territoriality issues away.

Read up on integration..... BYC advanced search>titles only>integration
This is good place to start reading:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/adding-to-your-flock