Heart disease symptoms in pullets

[Jessicx]

I have lost 4 babies over the last month to something I am not as yet able to identify. All had the same symptoms....labored, open mouth breathing, clicking sounds when breathing, lethargy, loss of appetite. I thought it was CRD running through the flock, but as I do my research I'm starting to think otherwise. None of them had any nasal or eye discharge. It is also limited to just the babies that were incubated, and they're getting hit one at a time every two weeks or so. These babies' father has what I suspect to be a heart condition. His comb randomly turns blue, unrelated in any way to heat or stress. Is it possible these babies are dying due to heart related issues, passed down by their father? One baby died after being treated for 24 hours with Tylan. When she passed, she let out the oddest squeak, postured, then fell over....immediately indicative of a heart attack. Thoughts?

 

[ChattyChickens4Life]

I'm really not sure! I hope someone can help you! This sounds serious! I first thought CRD, but now I agree with you on a heart related issue. I hope someone can help!

 

[Jessicx]

I'm really not sure! I hope someone can help you! This sounds serious! I first thought CRD, but now I agree with you on a heart related issue. I hope someone can help!

Thank you. My purpose, really, in posting this is to determine if I should bother wasting $60 on Tylan soluble powder to treat the entire flock. I posted a thread late last night asking the same question, but in regards to CRD. I invested a lot of time and money both in incubating these babies and in shipping and raising 17 silver and golden sebrights. Beyond the emotional toil associated with losing my babies, I cannot fathom the monetary loss if they all perish, especially once they're introduced to the rest of the flock. Anyway, thanks for your reply!!

 

[ChattyChickens4Life]

Thank you. My purpose, really, in posting this is to determine if I should bother wasting $60 on Tylan soluble powder to treat the entire flock. I posted a thread late last night asking the same question, but in regards to CRD. I invested a lot of time and money both in incubating these babies and in shipping and raising 17 silver and golden sebrights. Beyond the emotional toil associated with losing my babies, I cannot fathom the monetary loss if they all perish, especially once they're introduced to the rest of the flock. Anyway, thanks for your reply!!

You are so welcome! I hope someone comes along who can just spill all their chicken chat! Best wishes!

 

[speckledhen]

The chance that an entire group has heart issues is almost nil. What they do have is not clear.

I lost only one pullet in a dozen years to a heart defect. She was 24 weeks old, about to come into lay when I found her panting, her heart racing. We brought her in to check her over, could find nothing, took her back and let her rest in a nest. The next a.m., we had to go buy groceries. When we got back, I found her inside the pop door dead, blood coming out of her mouth. We opened her up and one chamber of her heart had just imploded, blood all in her chest cavity. We deduced that perhaps she had a heart defect and the stress of coming into lay caused it to fail.
I saw what I felt was a heart issue in one bantam rooster years later. He had pneumonia as a 2 week old chick, maybe because the situation that caused it was too much for a probably defective heart in the first place. Later at early maturity, his comb turned purple and his crop quit (crop failure is usually a symptom of an internal issue). He passed away within days.

But, an entire group is unlikely to have heart issues. I'm not sure I can even hazard a guess as to what is going on. @1muttsfan any ideas?

 

[Nikki A]

My hen just recovered for a VERY serious combination sinus/respiratory infection and she never had nasal discharge or swollen eyes. I had started her on Tylan 50 injections (with diabetic insulin syringes - the pharmacist let me buy two 10 packs) and she wasn't getting better at the 48 hour mark so I took her to the vet. He confirmed the diagnosis and told me to give a total of a 7 day course of the Tylan 50. For the injections, he agreed 1ml two times per day via injection - 1/2 between the should blades subcutaneous and the other 1/2 into breast muscle - on the breast, alternating sides and zigzagging your way down so that it's not always into the same place. I also syringe fed her yogurt and pate-style cat food, which she didn't think too much of but she had to eat something!

Best of luck with your girls!

 

[Jessicx]

The chance that an entire group has heart issues is almost nil. What they do have is not clear.

I lost only one pullet in a dozen years to a heart defect. She was 24 weeks old, about to come into lay when I found her panting, her heart racing. We brought her in to check her over, could find nothing, took her back and let her rest in a nest. The next a.m., we had to go buy groceries. When we got back, I found her inside the pop door dead, blood coming out of her mouth. We opened her up and one chamber of her heart had just imploded, blood all in her chest cavity. We deduced that perhaps she had a heart defect and the stress of coming into lay caused it to fail.
I saw what I felt was a heart issue in one bantam rooster years later. He had pneumonia as a 2 week old chick, maybe because the situation that caused it was too much for a probably defective heart in the first place. Later at early maturity, his comb turned purple and his crop quit (crop failure is usually a symptom of an internal issue). He passed away within days.

But, an entire group is unlikely to have heart issues. I'm not sure I can even hazard a guess as to what is going on. @1muttsfan any ideas?

I've only lost 4 of the original 30 chicks. So, I'm not thinking they all have it. I'm just starting to wonder if the 4 I did lose might have had it. I did a necropsy on two of them, who perished before their first week. One had a clear case of Ascites, and the other had a VERY large heart for such a small baby. But that might be normal to this layman.
Just of note, I found my latest victim last night with severe wheezing and lethargy. She was given .25cc Tylan, and quaranteened. Just now, during second dose, she has made almost a complete 180. No apparent wheezing, clicking, or mouth breathing, she's chirping, and remained alert during the entire ordeal. There's no way she can make such a profound recovery after just one dose, is there? I was cleaning the coop when I first noticed her symptoms. Is it possible to chock this up to stress and breathing in coop dust?

 

[Jessicx]

My hen just recovered for a VERY serious combination sinus/respiratory infection and she never had nasal discharge or swollen eyes. I had started her on Tylan 50 injections (with diabetic insulin syringes - the pharmacist let me buy two 10 packs) and she wasn't getting better at the 48 hour mark so I took her to the vet. He confirmed the diagnosis and told me to give a total of a 7 day course of the Tylan 50. For the injections, he agreed 1ml two times per day via injection - 1/2 between the should blades subcutaneous and the other 1/2 into breast muscle - on the breast, alternating sides and zigzagging your way down so that it's not always into the same place. I also syringe fed her yogurt and pate-style cat food, which she didn't think too much of but she had to eat something!

Best of luck with your girls!

I might see if I can find a vet that specializes in avian medicine. I have not been administering subcutaneously, just in the breast meat. For a Bantam pullet 6 weeks of age, what is the specific dosage subcutaneously? I've been giving .25cc in the muscle. Regarding syringe feeding, I am awful at it. I'm pretty sure I drowned my first casualty, and when they refuse to take in food or water, simply dropping yogurt at the tip or side of their beak is an exercise in futility. How do you forecefeed without drowning? Thanks for your help!

 

[Eggcessive]

Tylan is meant for injecting into muscle, not under skin. But many give it orally, especially in chicks or bantams, since it can cause muscle damage at the injection site. You can 0.2 ml per pound of weight, twice a day for 5 days. Viruses such as infectious bronchitis or ILT will not respond to antibiotics, and will run their course over a month or longer. MG or mycoplasma can look somewhat like bronchitis, and all of those can cause carriers in the flock. MG is a chronic disease, so it can come back. Once it is in the flock, it will be there until all chickens are gone, so hatching or getting more chickens will perpetuate the disease. If you lose any you may want to get a professional necropsy to identify the respiratory disease. It is good that you have done your own necropsies, since that is a great way to learn.

 

[1muttsfan]

I agree that not all respiratory diseases have the same signs, even the same disease can look different in different birds. Response to treatment can be helpful, and sometimes antibiotics can have an immediate effect.
The .2 ml/# dose looks much more accurate than .25 cc per bird, especially in immature bantams. And 7 days would be a full course of treatment. As you may already know, intramuscular injections should always be done in the breast, and not the leg. I have not used Tylan orally, but would be willing to try it as the injections are quite honestly a PITA.

Whenever you use an antibiotic there are 3 things to keep in mind:
1. Use the right one - it should be effective against the suspected organism. And antibiotics are completely ineffective on viral infections.
2. Give the right dose - underdosing is not only ineffective, it leads to bacterial resistance
3. Give it for long enough - a full course of treatment is always necessary, not just until they appear better. Treating for just a dose or two, or for too short a time, can leave some less-sensitive bacteria behind, again leading to resistance.

Why should we be concerned about bacterial resistance in bird infections?
- Because it leaves you with fewer and fewer tools to use on sick birds
- Even more important, resistance can be transmitted between different types of bacteria. This leads to more types of dangerous resistant bacteria - and this includes the bacteria that can infect you and your family (that is how MERSA has come about)

Best of luck with your birds.