Heirloom - Heritage Chicken

[SHCsa]

We are a small CSA farm in central CA. We only produce heirloom veggies using organic methods. We have started offering eggs and meaties raised on our pastures but the Cornish X are hardly "heirloom"! I was all set to start experimenting with some Naked Necks (thought they would be great with our climate here) from S&G but when I started doing my research I realized that they do not breed true because S&G has bred them to protect their genetic investment. I assume all the hatcheries practice the same methods...

Is this true for most of the other "heritage breeds available at hatcheries? (i.e. Delawares Black Australorp etc.)
Is there anywhere I can purchase 50 or so NN's that will breed true?
How long would it take (if ever) to create a NN that would breed true by crossing it with other breeds? (need 2 genes right?)
Are there some really great breeding books someone might recommend?

There are quite a few farms around on the internet that are supposedly producing their own NN's Im wondering how they got started?

This is way more complicated than I anticipated, but lots of fun.

Thanks for any info.

 

[gallorojo]

In regards to actual BREEDS, NOT HYBRIDS--Most hatcheries DO NOT protect their investment by creating hybrids, such as with the cornish cross broilers. If you buy Standard Breeds ( Not crosses-not sex links, or broilers, or hybrid layers!) from a hatchery, they will be SOME VERSION of that breed, roughly,- If you get Australorps, both parents were almost certainly some version of Australorps. Here are your issues..
1) Hatcheries breed for quantity, not quality. If you want birds that are true heritage or heirloom, they should match the Standard of Perfection. Most birds from most hatcheries do not. They produce birds that roughly look like the breed they are suppossed to, and they basically do breed true, but, they don't match the actual breed standard. This is not merely about looks and feathers, a hatchery Plymouth Rock is not built correctly or large enough to be a decent dual purpose meat bird, while a standard bred one will be.
2) Naked Necks are a Standard Breed, they are in the American SOP. In several colors. However, the hatcheries generally don't offer them in specific colors, and because the naked neck gene is dominant, what they are offering could be crossed recently with non naked necks. Do you want them for meat? Unfortunately they hatchery naked necks won't be as nice of meat birds as Naked Necks you might get from a good breeder.
3) As for purchasing 50 Naked Necks, Ideal, or Meyer, or any large hatchery probably has them. If you get them, the vast majority of them will breed true for Naked Necks, maybe or maybe not for feather color, leg color, etc, hard to say there.
4) Breeding your own stock is rewarding and interesting work, but, it's a lot of work and a steep learning curve, which is why most farmers no longer do it. As for books, go WAY back, before indoor caged layers, before hybrid broilers, to find decent materials. I like the Call of the Hen by Hogan , and Start Where You Are With What You Have by Sturgeon, and of course, your bible, the American Standard of Perfection!!

I will add that I have several friends nearby who operate CSA's. I personally am frustrated how every CSA or small farm around now will happily advertise all their vegetables are non hybrid, non GMO, heirloom, etc, and then they raise all hybrid chickens...HMMM...I understand why-nothing can remotely compete with speed of growth and feed conversion with the hybrid broilers, and, likewise, a red sex link will lay circles around a standard bred RIR. Educating customers would go a long long way I think, and someone has to take the first steps...

 

[SHCsa]

I will add that I have several friends nearby who operate CSA's. I personally am frustrated how every CSA or small farm around now will happily advertise all their vegetables are non hybrid, non GMO, heirloom, etc, and then they raise all hybrid chickens...HMMM...I understand why-nothing can remotely compete with speed of growth and feed conversion with the hybrid broilers, and, likewise, a red sex link will lay circles around a standard bred RIR. Educating customers would go a long long way I think, and someone has to take the first steps..

We want to do things right on our chickens, but the challenge of finding good stock is considerable. Yes I am looking at NN's for a meat bird. We can get VERY hot out here, (105 degrees + very dry) is not uncommon that is one of the reasons I was looking at the naked neck. I called Ideal and their NN's do not breed true. A NN bred with another NN will probably produce a featherneck, not to mention size etc. Sounds like I need to find a good breeder for our initial stock but to get started I need a significant number of birds. Maybe I should be looking at another breed? (Buckeyes maybe) Or, maybe I should just get a bunch of NN's from different hatcheries and see what I get when they hatch and keep the best. Finding the initial startup birds seems to me to be a big challenge, I need product PLUS good stock that breeds true and is sustainable.

 

[gallorojo]

You are right in that it will be a challenge. The Naked Neck would be a good choice for a hot climate. Either find a good breeder who selects for large size, or start making your own. Good Luck!! It would actually be really easy to make a Naked Neck anything as the naked neck trait is dominant.

 

[capayvalleychick]

I have a very small farm north of Sacramento and raise all heritage breeds. I sell registered breeding stock, eggs and meat. The chickens have been the biggest challenge. I haven't yet been able to come up with chicken that will be acceptable to the public, as far as size/tenderness. I did make the mistake of starting with hatchery stock and agree with what gallorojo says. The issue was that they were just scrawny. Also, the length of time it takes for some breeds to reach a marketable size results in roasting fowl that takes time to cook.
Summer heat has not been a problem and we have temps above 100 for most of the summer. Natural selection helps produce birds that do well in your climate.
I'm not familiar with Naked Necks. I started with Dorkings and am breeding them up to the Standard. These will be offered as heritage roasting fowl, since they take months to mature. I tried Buckeyes and just was not impressed enough to stay with them. The breed that I have high hopes for is the Delaware. They mature much more quickly than the others, so the meat can be cooked quickly and still be tender. They still take longer to mature than the Cornish X or Freedom Rangers, so you won't make the same profit. You have to be truly committed to the concept of heritage breed conservation in order to do this. The majority of farmers think I'm crazy.
Even the Delawares need to be improved to bring them up to Standard. I have an old strain that needs more meat to be offered commercially but are fine for my family. If you want a strain that is promising, look up kathyinmo. She is recreating a strain of Delawares that look like the best.
Regards,
KIm
Star.Rose Ranch
Dexter cattle, St. Croix Hair Sheep, American Guinea Hogs, Dorking & Delawares

 

[SHCsa]

The chickens have been the biggest challenge. I haven't yet been able to come up with chicken that will be acceptable to the public, as far as size/tenderness.

The tenderness issue is one I am concerned with, not sure what the NN's are going to be like at 15-18 weeks.

The breed that I have high hopes for is the Delaware. They mature much more quickly than the others, so the meat can be cooked quickly and still be tender. They still take longer to mature than the Cornish X or Freedom Rangers, so you won't make the same profit. You have to be truly committed to the concept of heritage breed conservation in order to do this. The majority of farmers think I'm crazy.
Even the Delawares need to be improved to bring them up to Standard. I have an old strain that needs more meat to be offered commercially but are fine for my family. If you want a strain that is promising, look up kathyinmo. She is recreating a strain of Delawares that look like the best.

I have a few Delaware pullets that I bought on a whim at a feed store, and they are definitely faster growing...and friendly. We are experimenting with barley fodder, growing sunflowers etc in hopes of alleviating some of the feed cost. You are in good company here...been crazy all my life! Love thinking outside the box.

Thanks for your replies everyone. What a great resource here! After talking with another sustainable farm in Kentucky and your helpful comments I decided to just jump and ordered some naked necks from http://www.cacklehatchery.com I also ordered some Buckeyes from http://www.privetthatchery.com as a local breeder recommended their stock as "good start".