Help I killed my chicken! Aspiration? (and Marek's problems)

BPaula

Chirping
May 22, 2020
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I believe I have Marek's in my flock, and to preface this - there is not a good chicken vet where I live. I am considering sending the next body to a lab in another state for testing, but my chickens are beloved pets and I just have a hard time with that idea.

What I'd like advice on here is #1.. does this definitely sound like Marek's to you? and #2 could I have prevented chicken #5 and #6's deaths? And #3 is there anything else that could be going on here? All the chickens mentioned below were supposed to be vaccinated for Mareks except the two Cochins.

It began with chicken #1, Easter, at 5 months she developed the classic Marek's symptoms with one leg back and one forward, one leg totally paralyzed, stopped wanting to eat.. unbelievably after 2 months of hand feeding, St. John's Wort, and other remedies she made a full recovery (albeit from then on she was easily addled for lack of a better word) for the rest of her life (almost 3 years). Chickens #2 & #3, Hazel and Fanny, both Cochins, died at a little under a year both with paralyzed legs and stopped eating. A year passed with few problems, until Chickens #4 & #5, Buttercup and Sapphire, died of salpingitis (did an autopsy and found a huge, hard, "lash" egg inside). From what I researched Marek's compromises immune system so maybe these two hens could have fought it off otherwise? Then a few months ago Easter quits eating and acts lethargic. Same thing happened this week to my rooster, Maggie. I had a fecal test done for the rooster by a dog vet and he said negative on cocci or worms.

Here's where it gets bad... although I spent months hand feeding and giving water to chickens #1 - 4, I think I accidentally killed Easter and Maggie trying to treat them. I know there is a huge chance they would have died anyway.. but both were not wanting solid food, yet eating soft food.. in both after a session of giving them soft food, I tried giving them water (and I know how to do it without getting it down the wrong hole).. but somehow I think it happened anyhow because after being fed, and then giving water both died choking to death (aspiration? there was food dribbling out their mouths). It was absolutely terrible. I don't think I'll ever want to hand feed water to a chicken ever again. Is this completely my fault? Neither had over full crops to start with, both practically empty if anything.. did they have heart attacks or did I totally block their breathing? Could they have had a tumor or something in their throats making it so the food just didn't go down fast, and backed up, so when I gave them water it overflowed into that hole it wasn't supposed to go down.. could this have happened? Does anyone have any insight on this? I'm totally devasted that I accidentally killed two of my chickens trying to save them. For anyone having to hand feed and water chickens, I think maybe the biggest thing I learned is to not hand feed food, then water.. maybe leave a good amount of time between one and the other... and go super slow.. how many ml of water does a sick chicken need? maybe I was overdoing it.. this last only had about 9-12ml when it started choking.

If none of the above was due to cocci or worms, could EColi have caused any of this? Or Mycoplasma Gallispeticum (MG)? Trying to leave no stone unturned to figure out what is going on. I just can't help feeling like if I can figure out the trigger that makes Marek's come out, and I could treat that quicker.. there would be a chance to save them. Saving Easter the first time around makes me feel this way, but then maybe that was a 1 in 1,000 stroke of luck with her : (
 
Does no one have even one encouraging word? Has anyone been through this, losing half the flock in 3 years and came out the other side? Life after Merek's (presuming that's what this is)? I think I need to get chics I know were 100% vaccinated from Mareks, keep in a sterile environment for 3 weeks then try starting again... I'm just so tired of death after death, as much as I love chickens I wonder if it's worth it to keep going. I give them everything, organic food, a predator proof coop / run we spent a fortune on, etc. only to go through death after death...
 
Does no one have even one encouraging word? Has anyone been through this, losing half the flock in 3 years and came out the other side? Life after Merek's (presuming that's what this is)? I think I need to get chics I know were 100% vaccinated from Mareks, keep in a sterile environment for 3 weeks then try starting again... I'm just so tired of death after death, as much as I love chickens I wonder if it's worth it to keep going. I give them everything, organic food, a predator proof coop / run we spent a fortune on, etc. only to go through death after death...
I’m so sorry for this. I am not experienced in this and don’t have advice but I wanted to say I hear you, how much you love them, and how hard this is.

There’s a good article I’ll go look for about someone dealing with Mareks in their flock. It might be some comfort.

Big hug.
 
Does no one have even one encouraging word? Has anyone been through this, losing half the flock in 3 years and came out the other side? Life after Merek's (presuming that's what this is)? I think I need to get chics I know were 100% vaccinated from Mareks, keep in a sterile environment for 3 weeks then try starting again... I'm just so tired of death after death, as much as I love chickens I wonder if it's worth it to keep going. I give them everything, organic food, a predator proof coop / run we spent a fortune on, etc. only to go through death after death...
You can't diagnose mereks or anything unless you send a refrigerated dead bird for necropsy.
What is their diet exactly? Lash eggs happen but more so in production breeds. The symptoms can also indicate nutritional/ vitamin deficiency.
The mareks vaccine doesn't keep a bird from getting or spreading mereks, just usually keeps the mereks tumors from growing.
 
Their diet is Scratch and Peck organic pellets, supplemental grit and oyster shells. From time to time I give them NutriDrench, and they get meal worm treats fairly often. ACV in the water once in awhile, probiotics in food once in awhile, garlic / yeast on food once in awhile. I try not to overdo the supplements by doing all the time, or too many at once. I spend $65 on a bag of 30lb food - the most expensive brand, which I assume is high quality, while friends feed $20 50lb bags with 0 problems.. it's just depressing...
 
Sorry you're having issues. Check with your state vet on getting a necropsy done. Some states offer it free, others offer it free when you do the NPIP program, while others offer them for low cost. It just depends on your state.
 
Firstly, :hugs
It began with chicken #1, Easter, at 5 months she developed the classic Marek's symptoms with one leg back and one forward, one leg totally paralyzed, stopped wanting to eat.. unbelievably after 2 months of hand feeding, St. John's Wort, and other remedies she made a full recovery (albeit from then on she was easily addled for lack of a better word) for the rest of her life (almost 3 years). Chickens #2 & #3, Hazel and Fanny, both Cochins, died at a little under a year both with paralyzed legs and stopped eating.
This does sound like Mareks, but as nuthatched said, the only way to actually diagnose it is though testing.
I know its hard to think of sending one of your pets away, even if its only the body.
But think, you really need to know whats going on, even if its only for yourself.
I recently got one of mine tested, after half a year of possible symptoms, and even though it came back positive, it was such a relief to know.
Also, it meant that when I lost one, I knew it wasn't something I did, but just Mareks, which doesn't take the pain away, but is a relief.
Here's where it gets bad... although I spent months hand feeding and giving water to chickens #1 - 4, I think I accidentally killed Easter and Maggie trying to treat them. I know there is a huge chance they would have died anyway.. but both were not wanting solid food, yet eating soft food.. in both after a session of giving them soft food, I tried giving them water (and I know how to do it without getting it down the wrong hole).. but somehow I think it happened anyhow because after being fed, and then giving water both died choking to death (aspiration? there was food dribbling out their mouths). It was absolutely terrible. I don't think I'll ever want to hand feed water to a chicken ever again. Is this completely my fault? Neither had over full crops to start with, both practically empty if anything.. did they have heart attacks or did I totally block their breathing? Could they have had a tumor or something in their throats making it so the food just didn't go down fast, and backed up, so when I gave them water it overflowed into that hole it wasn't supposed to go down.. could this have happened? Does anyone have any insight on this?
I don't know about this, and I don't think anyone can say what happened, unless you send them to a lab.
If I think a hen needs help drinking, I will just slightly dip their beaks in the water, and let them drink on the own.
This normally works.
 
I do the deep litter method in the coop, sometimes I wonder if they are getting EColi or bacterial problems from this, I use pine shavings - I believe it looks the way it should and doesn't smell too bad IMO, it's never too damp, it crumbles to a nice dirt texture when I pick it up. I've never seen any of my chickens have respiratory problems in the slightest, they have never had mites or lice... but I do wonder about the fact that they are daily walking in decomposing poo.. (which might not cause problems in normal chickens, but problems with Marek's chickens that are immunocompromised?). I remove the large piles of droppings from under the roost every few days or so, so it's not quite so much poo. It's a 6'x5' coop. They also have a 12x12' covered run, which has sand and wood pellets on the ground that turned to sawdust. They love dust bathing in it, but I do worry it's too much dust.. but then like I said I've never heard much sneezing, no watery eyes or other respiratory issues. The sand and pellets were necessary to fill the bottom of the run as otherwise it was a muddy wet mess.. since we did this, the level raised to where even when it rains super hard there is no standing water. I rake out the poo and feathers from the run every so often.
 
Thank you for the comments further up. I will definitely send in for a necropsy at some point. Just not sure this ones the one.
 
I believe I have Marek's in my flock, and to preface this - there is not a good chicken vet where I live. I am considering sending the next body to a lab in another state for testing, but my chickens are beloved pets and I just have a hard time with that idea.

What I'd like advice on here is #1.. does this definitely sound like Marek's to you? and #2 could I have prevented chicken #5 and #6's deaths? And #3 is there anything else that could be going on here? All the chickens mentioned below were supposed to be vaccinated for Mareks except the two Cochins.

It began with chicken #1, Easter, at 5 months she developed the classic Marek's symptoms with one leg back and one forward, one leg totally paralyzed, stopped wanting to eat.. unbelievably after 2 months of hand feeding, St. John's Wort, and other remedies she made a full recovery (albeit from then on she was easily addled for lack of a better word) for the rest of her life (almost 3 years). Chickens #2 & #3, Hazel and Fanny, both Cochins, died at a little under a year both with paralyzed legs and stopped eating. A year passed with few problems, until Chickens #4 & #5, Buttercup and Sapphire, died of salpingitis (did an autopsy and found a huge, hard, "lash" egg inside). From what I researched Marek's compromises immune system so maybe these two hens could have fought it off otherwise? Then a few months ago Easter quits eating and acts lethargic. Same thing happened this week to my rooster, Maggie. I had a fecal test done for the rooster by a dog vet and he said negative on cocci or worms.

Here's where it gets bad... although I spent months hand feeding and giving water to chickens #1 - 4, I think I accidentally killed Easter and Maggie trying to treat them. I know there is a huge chance they would have died anyway.. but both were not wanting solid food, yet eating soft food.. in both after a session of giving them soft food, I tried giving them water (and I know how to do it without getting it down the wrong hole).. but somehow I think it happened anyhow because after being fed, and then giving water both died choking to death (aspiration? there was food dribbling out their mouths). It was absolutely terrible. I don't think I'll ever want to hand feed water to a chicken ever again. Is this completely my fault? Neither had over full crops to start with, both practically empty if anything.. did they have heart attacks or did I totally block their breathing? Could they have had a tumor or something in their throats making it so the food just didn't go down fast, and backed up, so when I gave them water it overflowed into that hole it wasn't supposed to go down.. could this have happened? Does anyone have any insight on this? I'm totally devasted that I accidentally killed two of my chickens trying to save them. For anyone having to hand feed and water chickens, I think maybe the biggest thing I learned is to not hand feed food, then water.. maybe leave a good amount of time between one and the other... and go super slow.. how many ml of water does a sick chicken need? maybe I was overdoing it.. this last only had about 9-12ml when it started choking.

If none of the above was due to cocci or worms, could EColi have caused any of this? Or Mycoplasma Gallispeticum (MG)? Trying to leave no stone unturned to figure out what is going on. I just can't help feeling like if I can figure out the trigger that makes Marek's come out, and I could treat that quicker.. there would be a chance to save them. Saving Easter the first time around makes me feel this way, but then maybe that was a 1 in 1,000 stroke of luck with her : (
I'm so sorry for the loss of your ladies😢. It's so heartbreaking every time. 💔 Sending warm hugs to you! While I don't have experience with Marek's I read a post here of a woman that had a similar experience. She started sourcing her chicks from farms in a five mile radius around her and now has a flourishing flock. If I knew how to find posts on this site I would link it here.

Again, I'm so very sorry. You did the best you could, I know it's hard to send guess yourself, but please know you did your best for your ladies 💗
 

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