Help!! Sick rooster newbie chicken owner

[liloredhead]

Hello, I have a heritage breed rooster that is sick. He has watery stool and is lethargic. He seems to have a "fever". He is in my bathroom and is drinking, but is laying down and very passive. I have had three chickens die this way in the last 3 months and I do not know why. He has no feathers on his breast. He has a bare spot about the size of a small deck of cards and the skin is red and hot. What in the world?? Any advice is so appreciated. I have had chickens for 6 months, they have a very clean pen, can free range, are fed traditional layer, have three water tanks and are fed tomatoes and other veggies almost daily. I take super care of them. This is my favorite chicken. Thank you so much......

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
We'll need some more information, please, to establish a flock history particularly because of your other losses.

First things first, feel his weight - is he fat, thin, very thin? Check him carefully for mites/lice very carefully, every inch of him (literally). Rule that out.

Has the flock ever been wormed by you?
Has this rooster had access to compost piles, maggots, earthworms? Feed tha tmight have gotten wet, or grain that spilled and was left out? Any old bread or anything from the kitchen that was over ripe? Any fallen fruit or veggies or berries? Any algea water, etc?

Was the onset sudden? Within hours? Do you know if he was fine this morning or last night? Was it very hot there today? Do they have lots of areas of shade, etc?

First, try to get him to eat a little yogurt (even if mixed in egg) today. Make sure he has electrolytes in his water at least - even if it's just pedialyte or gatorade (50/50) for today. Make sure he stays warm, not too cool. Try to keep him eating and drinking; he'll likely need to stay up for 2 days at least. If this was heat exhaustion, it doesn't 'go away' even when the symptoms do - there are lingering effects. Thus he'll need electrolytes for 4 days or so.

Are there other roosters by the way? Any chance of injuries from a predator? (I'd check every inch of him for that, too, as birds hide punctures well).

The bare spot - is it reddened? How long has it been there? Is he a large type bird? What breed, by the way - and how old is he?

By the way, a bird's temperature is around 105 to 107. It could be he got overheated, especially if he has hens to worry about.

I wonder if he didn't get attacked if the bald spot is new. If it's old, I'd think about how he roosts at night - but this type of infected skin doesn't often happen on free range birds - more often on birds kept in on bedding of a certain type.

 

[luvchicks8]

Good luck Three gives the best advise though.

 

[liloredhead]

Oh thank you so much. Zeus is a large bird. He weighs about 10 pounds. I do not know his breed as he was given to us, but told that he was a heritage breed. He is 6 months old. I found another hen dead today, by the way. So sad. We live in AZ, so it is always hot, but we have a big tree that they get under and I water the ground regularly to cool things off. It was about 94 today. He has access to water at all times, but the container has gotten a little green in it in the bottom. I immediately went out and scrubbed all three water containers just in case. The featherless spot on his chest is red. It seems "hot" to me. It has been bare for at least a month. I also have noticed that all my "big" chickens have the same thing.. (I have some 3 months old BUff Orpingtons as well and they are all fine.) The "big" chickens are all a bit bare on the chest and a bit red. His diarhea is absolutely water. Complete water. Although I brought him in the house, I am a huge fan of his, so going the distance for this guy is not an issue, and he seemed to be much, much, much better. His stool is more solid, more normal color and he has had some of the pedialyte. (My daughter read the post you so graciously posted to me over the phone so that I could literally rush to the store to help him.) He is walking now, although not as steady as I would like. At least he is walking. When I found him I thought he was near death and he was just passively laying on his side and very listless. I was mortified. He seemed fine this morning, but by this afternoon really sick. It came on sudden for sure. I have lost a total of four birds now. I only have four hens left. I have another rooster, but these guys are super laid back and there is just no fighting whatsoever, but I did look him over really, really good. Can't find any mites either, but I suppose microscopic ones could be there. I have never wormed any of my chickens. And more help you could offer, I would be ever, ever so grateful. Thank you so much. This chicken means a lot to me. Lilo

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Well the diarrhea is not good. Seems like it was the heat at least. I would definitely look into putting electrolytes in the water. Within the last two days I've heard a couple of people say that making the water cold has made a remarkable difference in water consumption. Since you use pans, think about freezing some drinking-water bottles and putting those (cap off) in the waterers. That way they keep the water cool and, when they melt, they just add more water to the pan.

I really feel the bigger birds take heat worse. I suspect that your guys maybe have some roosting or bedding issues. What is their roost? Sometimes birds get a bit of redness on their chests particularly if they're heavy birds from their roosts. Keep checking for mites at night - they're very tricky and only get on the birds sometimes and then at night. But I suspect something else.

I'd give all the birds some yogurt for that diarrhea, give them all electrolytes to make it through the heat, etc. It can't hurt - it can definitely hurt.

On your rooster, keep him up for two days in a warm but not toally cool place - that way it's not too much of an adjustment when he goes back inside. But usually bad heat problems like that actually take 4 days to repair even though the birds seem better right away.

I'm glad he's better. Any chance you could send a picture? If he's a heritage bird, then maybe we can help you figure out which one so you can be extra proud of him.

 

[liloredhead]

Thank you ever so much. I will continue to look for mites. Although I have not seen any, doesn't mean they are not there. Do they actually kill the birds?? His stool is so much better, thank God, I am so worried about him. He is actually in my bedroom in a big dog kennel. I gave him yogurt in egg, but he is really too sleepy since it's dark to eat anything. We shall see in the morning. Is there any harm in treating the birds for mites and what would you suggest?? Also, these "big" chickens do not roost. They lay on the ground. I have tried to teach them, but to no avail. I used to have nice bermuda hay in their house, but since I ended up with a few dead birds and they all were missing feathers on their breast area, I thought the hay must be irritating, so then I went out and bought pine shavings, which did seem to help. The birds feathers did seem to grow back some, so I thought AHA!!!! But then we lost a bird today and Zeus was so sick, so obviously that is not the problem. I will be happy to post a picture although I am not quite sure how to do so. If you have any ideas on how to avoid heat stroke in the future, I'm all ears. I only have a few hens left that are nearing laying age, and certainly don't want to lose anymore. It is too sad for words. I put my heart into my animals and don't want anything to happen to any of them. Oh and what would you think of worming them and what do you use? I haven't a clue about chicken wormer. Again, I can't thank you enough, you have been an invaluable help to me.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Mites can actually make a bird so anemic than it can kill them, yes. I suspect this guy is just overheated. But it's possible he has some other things going on that make him more susceptible to it.

Now you could indeed treat preventatively for mites/lice. It would not hurt and could well help. I'd suggest "permethrin" dust for the birds. It comes in a shaker can; read the label to make sure it's permethrin as the active ingredient. There are many different names of the different brands. "Poultry Dust", "livestock lice powder", "poultry and garden dust", etc. The active ingredient should always be permethrin. There are even sprays if you had a sure-thing mite infestation (as with actual mites you'd want to spray the wood as that's where the mites live). For spraying wood, "goat lice spray" that is permethrin or "livestock spray" that is something under 10% permethrin is perfect.

But for now, dusting them would rule that out. I wear gloves and shake the powder into my hand, then mush that into their feathers everywhere. Shake out just a bit of powder - once you ruffle it into their feathers it goes a long way. (I found out that using the shaker can on the birds both terrified them and wasted a LOT of dust....too much effort for me, thanks). Some people say to put it in a pantyhose knee-high, tie the top, and use that to powder them. I haven't tried it but it sounds reasonable.

Redust in 7 days, twice.

On worming, I'll assume all your birds are over 4 months.

I always recommend Wazine 17 (piperazine 17% liquid, cattle and swine section usually) as a first wormer with a followup of fenbendazole or of 5% ivermectin (generic) pour-on cattle wormer.

The birds I always worm first with Wazine are those that fit any of the following categories:

- The bird has an unknown worming history
- The bird has diarrhea or is thin
- The bird or someone in the flock has shed a worm
- The bird hasn't been wormed with a broad-spectrum wormer in over 6 months
- The bird is under 4 months old (then I use wazine twice)

Wazine is an effective but relatively narrow spectrum wormer; it paralyzes adults of three types of worms, but doesn't do anything for their larva or other worms. This sounds bad, but for poultry in the above situations it's a benefit. If a bird has a heavy parasite load and you worm it with a super broad spectrum wormer, sometimes it can shock and overload the bird with dead/dying worms. So you always assume a bird has a heavier parasite load than you think (unless you get a "fecal egg count"). One can't depend on visual inspection of the droppings for worms because it would be against the worms' best interests to leave the birds - so they often don't. They stay up in the guts etc and shed their eggs instead. If you see one worm, they're like fleas - you can assume there are many many more that you can't see. NOt seeing any fleas doesn't mean there aren't any however.

So worm first with Wazine - that gets rid of a bulk of adult roundworms, the most common worm for birds. It's meant to be repeated anyway - so instead of just killing more adult worms, you use a broad-spectrum wormer to kill the larvae AND adult worms and essentially halt the cycle for a good while. The broad spectrums are wormers like fenbendazole (SafeGuard paste for cattle/horses, or liquid for goats - 10%), Ivermectin (5% pour on for cattle - used in 1 to 6 drops on the skin), albendazole (Valbazen), levamisole, hygomycin, etc. My preference is for fenbendazole (as some sites say it may even effect some protazoa and tapeworms), and ivermectin (generic - the 250ml bottle) as it effects external parasites.

Thereafter, I worm twice annually with the broad spectrum as a maintenance measure. For "routine" wormings like that, I try to do it in the fall and spring when temperatures are mild. Don't use fenbendazole during a molt - it'll make the feathers odd.

Some people choose to use more natural preventatives inbetween worming in hopes of reducing over all available parasite loads. Some examples are DE (food grade only), VermX (an herbal worm 'repellent'), cayenne, and garlic. I tend to believe that these can help, even though none of them are proven to treat an actual "infestation" or worm in studies. I like the help inbetween wormings, though, so I don't have to worm more often.

Other methods of worm control are the following:

- Never feeding earthworms to your birds - they're intermediate hosts of many, many parasites. Let them find their own; feed farmed mealyworms as a treat instead. (Grow your own - they're apparently easy).
- Use sand instead of soil in runs; its dryness dessicates worm eggs and other parasites as well as bacteria. This makes for a better-smelling, easier to clean, and more hygienic run.
- Use compressed/dry type pine horse-stall shavings instead of hay; again their dryness and quality of absorbtion help to dessicate parasites and keep things more hygienic.
- Use DE (food grade only) in the bathing/dust spots of your chickens - sprinkle just a little, stir in. (Never use on the birds)
- Let a good portion of your run get a few hours of sun each day; sun heats and dries pathogens. It's a wonderful natural disinfectantA!
- Give the birds plenty of space, and keep them from eating their feed off of the ground; that prevents them picking up more pathogens than they need to. They get enough from just hunting on their own.

I hope this helps a bit.

(I wouldn't worm any time this week because of the rooster, but it could certainly be considered for next week. I always give yogurt for a day or two after worming, and sometimes a "treat" of molasses and applesauce (1/8th teaspoon of molasses, 1 teaspoon of applesauce, 3 tablespoons of yogurt, 1 cup of crumbles and water, or cooked oatmeal - made into a damp mash) to heal cleanse the system of dying worms and replace good bacteria in the new "clean slate".

Incidentally on the picture posting, I usually upload my photos onto an online service called Photobucket. It's free and they don't ever send you junk in the mail. It's very easy. You just sign up, upload the photos. It'll put the photos on the same window you're in. When it does, you simply cursor over the picture. Doing so will make a pop-up menu appear with four options for coding - including the bottom one which is IMG. You copy the script in the box besides the IMG option, and then just paste it into the typing window here.

It'll look something like this, even after you hit "submit":

[ IMG ] yada yada yada [ IMG ]

When you hit submit and look at your post, you'll see the picture *then*.


I'm very glad to have been of help and hope to continue to do so.

I really would like to see your birds get back on track. I really love my birds, and I'm heartbroken when I lose one. So I hate to see someone else get heartbroken, too.

/hugs

 

[Zahboo]

I hope everything is okay with the rooster. I am not a medical guru like threehorses (seriously, she saved my lil' Dot) but I just wanted to suggest ACV (apple cider vinegar) in the waterer. It helps prevent algae.

 

[liloredhead]

Thank you both for even caring!! I mean, he is a chicken, right? But I love him. So here's the latest. Zeus lives. He cockadoodle doo'd at 3 a.m. Since he was in my bedroom, it was very, very loud!!! That didn't go over very well with the husband!! He is feeling very much more like himself, Zues, not my husband. although seems a bit disoriented. I'm not sure if that's because he is in a super large dog kennel and not out in the run or what. He is eating. He is drinking. But I wouldn't call him 100%. I will pick up the acv today. I will continue with the electrolytes. I will continue with the yogurt. I will order the wormer and I have the dusting stuff. I noticed you said 1-6 drops of the liquid wormer. Why the range?? Is it according to weight I'm assuming? Any more suggestions for him? I'm keeping him in the house, then if he improves tomorrow he can go in the slightly warmer garage and then the next day if all is well back to the hen house. Does this sound ok? It is supposed to cool off a bit, but I think I am going to run the sprinkler around the hen house to keep the others cool and that should help. Plus, add the ice to the water. Plus, make sure there is not a speck of algae in the water. WHEW!!! I just hope if I cover every base that all will be well. By the way, his comb looked a bit blackish last night and like what a dead chickens comb looks like, then this morning it is all red and normal. If you don't mind answering one more time, what does that mean? I am so grateful to have found this forum. Now I have to go back and read more non emergency posts to gain some more knowledge. I had chickens all my life as a kid, but you know how that goes. Plus, when I was a kid, if the chicken lived, it lived, if not, it didn't. No one made a big deal out of it. But with Zeus..... and the others, well.... they are MY chickens and I won't have them die on my watch!! Thanks again. I feel so happy today.

 

[liloredhead]

Three feathers. By the way, I have horses as well. I went to your page. My dad lives in Tyler. From the few pictures I saw, looks like you must live in east TX as well. Very beautiful place.