HOLY SMOKES! check out these eggs!!!

[bayhorsebonne]

Hi guys! Thanks for looking at my auction on ebay. And thanks for all the nice things you are saying. I just love these birds and all of the great people I have met thru breeding them.

The picture on the auction of the birds is a picture of copper blacks. Nothing else. The pic does not do them justice. I will try to get some better pics posted, just really hard working around shorter days and long days at the office. Also, my copper blacks breed true. No funny colored chicks.

The picture of the eggs is really the way they look at the beginning of the laying cycle, no funny stuff with the photo shop enhancer.

The wheaten and copper black roosters look similar, but if you put them side by side, you will see the subtle differences between them.

You sure do not want them to get mixed up - that is for sure (LOL).

Have a great evening and enjoy your flocks! '
Bayhorsebonne

 

[EweSheep]

Yes Bayhorse is legit and has been around for some time! Good reputable breeder too! As far as the price goes, it all depends on the demand and supply she would be able to sell.

Beautiful colors!

 

[onthespot]

hey Donna, call me if you want help with pics. I am on light duty at work right now and have time off during the day... and I drive right past you at least once a day... You need to show off what you got better and I can help you.
Patty

 

[drom]

The wing colors are different. Wheaten roos have brown feathers on their wings. The translation at the French site has this (they need help with their spelling but they also provide a picture so it seems pretty clear):

"the wing miror of wheat-colored cock is "citinamon-brown. When the wing is folded back, it forms a visible triangle of this color".



But, what heck is a "wing miror" anyway?


The birds I got from bayhorsebonne are absolutely classic black copper. They do not display anything in the least bit uncharacteristic of the breed variety. In fact, at least so far, they are really turning out to be top quality in terms of the physical appearance, health and development. Two of them are even show quality and with only 6 birds that says something. There's not a dud in the bunch. They are 4 months so I don't have a egg picture to show and can't say anything about that yet.

 

[drom]

Quote:
That's exactly correct as far as I can tell from everything I have read.

It's not uncharacteristic for the Black Copper variety to show color on the upper breast at all. And that goes for the hens as well as the roosters although it's less common with the hens. According to the French standard a show quality hen should have a "plain black or red-spotted breast", while the standard for the rooster calls for the same; the ideal with the rooster apparently being the copper spotted, not the solid black. The copper color should be mid coppery or red copper but is not unusual or uncharacteristic of the variety for the hens to show lighter or straw color hackles, although not desirable. In France the show quality typically do not lay the darkest eggs and breeders selecting for egg color will make allowances for variations in all of the items listed above in favor of egg color.

I've read the two draft standards at the forums here and I know that individual breeders always have their own vision of what the breed should look like and they usually invest all their time and effort in that vision.
But for me, what is on the French site and in the French standard is the most correct and makes the most sense because it allows for some variation. A breed standard should be flexible enough to account for acceptable variations where they are important in order to ensure some balance.
Whatever.... I don't know what I am talking about-ahahahhahahah

It's 4:00am and I have no idea why I am online posting. I'm going back to sleep

 

[The Farmers Wife]

My personal experience with a "coppery breast" on a Black Copper Marans rooster?.....They are prone to throw chicks of the wheaten variety from time to time........I believe the wheaten gene is recessive in these coppery breasted Black Copper Marans birds........once we culled the males with this trate our hatches became pure~.... pure Black Copper Marans with no wheatens, that is~...... I would be interested to know if anyone else has had this same experience~.......?

 

[drom]

Ohooo-I've never heard that.

The BCs belong to a completely different genetic family from the wheatens-they may look the same, but aren't they completely different genetically?

http://marans-club.club.fr/ncuiang.htm#NCUI

Editing to add this:

I went over the page again and it does state that the Black Copper does dominate most of the other varieties, except for two; Black and Cuckoo, and it does also say that recessive genes from other varieties (like the Wheaten) can "stealthily appear in certain Brown-red clutches" and in subsequent generations can display the recessive characteristics. They go on to say that "in most cases, the Brown-red variety is quite enough genetically fixed and notably so, as long as it doesn't suffer uncontrolled, unconscious, irrational crossings with some Marans of other incompatible colors."

But it also says this and I'm not sure if I'm reading it right or not, but I believe maybe what they are saying is that even without any out-crossing to incompatible varieties, there is a specific genetic trait the Black copper variety has which causes the imbalance of copper and black:

"the Brown-red color (ER/ER), which is due to a certain genetic distribution between black and red (or coppery), is relatively unstable in comparison with the other varieties. The breast notably can be just as well entirely black than full of coppery marks down to the thigh. Only the selection must maintain the color to a golden mean". (I think by "golden mean" they are saying the right balance, not golden color).

That web site is so informative, but it is hard to understand if you are not really familiar with poultry genetics and/or breeding Marans. But what I think I am reading, is that the spotted breast/black breast variation is a genetic characteristic of the variety; not necessarily due to any out-crossing to other varieties.

You can all feel to tell me if you think I'm a idiot and I don't understand what I'm reading-ahahahahahha

 

[onthespot]

none of my roos have thrown wheaten. I only have one with a lot of brown on his chest, but I know I have chicks born from him and none are wheaten.

 

[drom]

Ah, I just noticed something about the Wheatens that I never noticed before. I don't own any so I didn't know this, but probably the biggest difference between the Black Copper and Wheaten is the saddle feathers. The Wheaten doesn't have copper saddle feathers-they're a dark mahogany red: