How Much Weight Should I Put on Weight?

[3KillerBs]

I'm trying to choose breeders for the Blue Australorps and, since it's my first time, I'm feeling my way along with the different characteristics.

I'm starting with the boys, but this question is relevant to the girls too. When I've got birds with various good points and bad points, how much influence should their comparative weights have?

Welp's info, the hatchery they came from, says that males should weigh 7lbs.

The Australian SOP, which is online so it's the one I have access to and am following* even though I'm in the US, says that a cockerel should be 7.5lbs and a cock 8.5lbs -- but doesn't say what age cockerel.

Currently, my 2 top candidates are 15-weeks-old, just under 5.5lbs, and within 1.5oz of each other.

Educate me, please?

*To the best of my understanding when it's extremely hard for a beginner to know what "medium" means for all those Australorp characteristics that are supposed to be medium.

P.S. I'm not intending to show, wanting a productive egg-laying flock, but since I do intend to sell birds I want them to reasonably represent their breed.

 

[Mrs. K]

These birds, even top examples of their breed will have variance. It is a guide. A couple of points:

15 weeks, they will be no where near full size. And because you really do not have a difference in weight, a couple of ounces is negligible. I would not use that characteristic to judge by. If by chance you had a big difference in weight, then that would be an automatic cull. You want thrifty birds, birds that gain well on less. I would not expect a dual purpose rooster to reach full weight until about 6 months.

At 15 weeks, I would really be looking for symmetry and balance. Look carefully at their feet and toes - need to be straight. Look carefully at their beaks, need to be perfectly aligned. Look at their heads and eyes, you really want skeletal symmetry where they are both the same on each side. These are characteristics that will time can develop into real problems...granted you are talking multiple generations and maybe a decade of intense breeding, but still a point to consider.

Also feel the keel bone, in the front of the chest. Evaluate the muscles surrounding that. Then look at the angles of the back and tails.

As for medium, look at some other SOP's for different birds, then you will see the real difference between the stature of different breeds, and that will help you develop an eye for medium.

Mrs K

 

[3KillerBs]

Thank you for so much useful information.

15 weeks, they will be no where near full size. And because you really do not have a difference in weight, a couple of ounces is negligible. I would not use that characteristic to judge by. If by chance you had a big difference in weight, then that would be an automatic cull. You want thrifty birds, birds that gain well on less. I would not expect a dual purpose rooster to reach full weight until about 6 months.

I have already cut out two of the 5. One of them because, compared to the others, he's light in the hand -- enough so that I didn't go through the trouble of taking a weight on him.

At 15 weeks, I would really be looking for symmetry and balance. Look carefully at their feet and toes - need to be straight. Look carefully at their beaks, need to be perfectly aligned. Look at their heads and eyes, you really want skeletal symmetry where they are both the same on each side. These are characteristics that will time can develop into real problems...granted you are talking multiple generations and maybe a decade of intense breeding, but still a point to consider.

And the other of the 2 who are definitely out is because he looks awkward -- not just with the normal awkward boniness of the "teenage" male that's seen in many species, but leggy, gangly, narrow, and just not right to my -- admittedly inexperienced -- eye.

He's got gorgeous (if too-light), plumage with wonderful tail sickles but just doesn't fit my idea of what a good chicken ought to look like. Maybe if he were a Mediterranean breed rather than a Dual-Purpose? Or maybe not.

It's easier to see what I'm talking about from the front and when he's in motion.

I'm finding it very difficult to see that sort of subtle characteristic with my uneducated eye and have been trying to get a lot of photos throughout their development in order to help judge them.

Also feel the keel bone, in the front of the chest. Evaluate the muscles surrounding that. Then look at the angles of the back and tails.

I will do that tonight when I throw them out of the nests and make notes.

I can say that my top candidates are solid in the hand and that I know of no gross defects that would make me unwilling to sell the losers. Not even the general awkwardness of Yellow above.

As for medium, look at some other SOP's for different birds, then you will see the real difference between the stature of different breeds, and that will help you develop an eye for medium.

Thank you! That's an excellent idea!

 

[Mrs. K]

Oh good, glad to be of help. I think one of the best things I ever read about chickens was a paper on the SOP of buckeyes. It really showed me how to look at a chicken.

And I see what you mean about the first chicken in the picture, he just isn't 'thick' enough, or masculine enough. ANYTHING you don't like, let go first. It just clears the wood from the trees, and lets you look and make better decisions as you go.

Cull the, 'I don't like" wait a couple of weeks.
Divide what's left into the yes and no groups - cull the no's, wait
And by this time, it should become much easier to get real picky about all the characteristics, but don't ever keep one you don't just love.

Mrs K

 

[3KillerBs]

Oh good, glad to be of help. I think one of the best things I ever read about chickens was a paper on the SOP of buckeyes. It really showed me how to look at a chicken.

And I see what you mean about the first chicken in the picture, he just isn't 'thick' enough, or masculine enough. ANYTHING you don't like, let go first. It just clears the wood from the trees, and lets you look and make better decisions as you go.

Cull the, 'I don't like" wait a couple of weeks.
Divide what's left into the yes and no groups - cull the no's, wait
And by this time, it should become much easier to get real picky about all the characteristics, but don't ever keep one you don't just love.

Mrs K

At first I was annoyed that ALL my straight runs were boys, but at least I have a good field of candidates to make choices.

Imagine if Yellow had been my only male with nothing to compare him to!

 

[Sally PB]

At first I was annoyed that ALL my straight runs were boys, but at least I have a good field of candidates to make choices.

Imagine if Yellow had been my only male with nothing to compare him to!

The silver lining!

 

[Ridgerunner]

*To the best of my understanding when it's extremely hard for a beginner to know what "medium" means for all those Australorp characteristics that are supposed to be medium.

P.S. I'm not intending to show, wanting a productive egg-laying flock, but since I do intend to sell birds I want them to reasonably represent their breed.

Go to chicken shows anyway. It will help you down the road. Talk to the breeders or the judge and see if you can get them to show you the differences on the birds. Reading doesn't help me that much, I don't usually know what they are talking about. But to have an expert point out differences can make a huge difference in understanding.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thank you for so much useful information.



I have already cut out two of the 5. One of them because, compared to the others, he's light in the hand -- enough so that I didn't go through the trouble of taking a weight on him.



And the other of the 2 who are definitely out is because he looks awkward -- not just with the normal awkward boniness of the "teenage" male that's seen in many species, but leggy, gangly, narrow, and just not right to my -- admittedly inexperienced -- eye.

He's got gorgeous (if too-light), plumage with wonderful tail sickles but just doesn't fit my idea of what a good chicken ought to look like. Maybe if he were a Mediterranean breed rather than a Dual-Purpose? Or maybe not.

View attachment 2952398
View attachment 2952399

It's easier to see what I'm talking about from the front and when he's in motion.

I'm finding it very difficult to see that sort of subtle characteristic with my uneducated eye and have been trying to get a lot of photos throughout their development in order to help judge them.



I will do that tonight when I throw them out of the nests and make notes.

I can say that my top candidates are solid in the hand and that I know of no gross defects that would make me unwilling to sell the losers. Not even the general awkwardness of Yellow above.



Thank you! That's an excellent idea!

First, I don't know what I'm talking about re: Breeds and SOP - you follow my culling project, and know that.

Second, trust your eye. If your eye and your brain are saying something is "not right", *even if* you can't consciously identify what, specifically, is wrong, trust that instinct. The human eye can distinguish far smaller comparative differences (by at least an order of magnitude) than it can identify in isolation. That is, I can draw a line 1.1 inch long, offer that its an "inch", and most will agree with me. But if I set a line 1.1" next to another of 1" length, everyone can tell there's a difference. An Illustration. Another Illustration.

Third, I was of the impression that ALorps were one of the late breeds to full size, even if they tend to begin laying relatively early, I'd not expect nearly full weight till much greater age. But - if your primary purpose is an attractive egg layer that generally looks as it "should", weight would be one of the characteristics I'd put lesser emphasis on. Symmetry, coloration, posture and profile, early maturity would be the boxes I'd first try to "check off". If you were doing controlled feeding, you could then look at feed efficiency as well, which for an egg layer is probably more important than a given weight at a certain age - a factor more important to me in a table bird.

My thoughts only, worth no more than you paid for them.

 

[Ridgerunner]

When I've got birds with various good points and bad points, how much influence should their comparative weights have?

P.S. I'm not intending to show, wanting a productive egg-laying flock, but since I do intend to sell birds I want them to reasonably represent their breed.

I totally ignored your question about comparative weights previously. I also do not show so this is just my opinion.

The SOP gives a specific weight that the birds should be, not just for Australorps but all breeds. I remember a breeder that used to be on here that targeted his RIR's for show to hit that preferred weight. He said he was sometimes penalized as some judges gave extra credit if the other bird was overweight. I don't know what message to take from that, maybe someone smarter than me can figure out something. To me it downgraded the importance of getting the right weight, even when showing but bigger is better. Probably irrelevant to your question.

How much a specific bird weighs depends on things other than breeding. Diet plays a big part. Show birds are fed a special diet to get the weight up where they want it. You need the genetics so the bird can reach that size if it gets the right diet. Besides, can you tell if a chicken weighs 6 pounds or seven just by looking? Most people can't. How fluffy or full the feathers are can make that harder. I'd consider conformation and other visual traits as more important in having something that "reasonably represents their breed" than the target weight.

While I think you plan to eat some of your culls, I don't see you mention that meat is one of your goals with these, mainly egg laying. If meat is one of your goals then comparative weights at the age you typically butcher is important. If all else is equal I'd keep the heavier as a tie-breaker anyway. But I'd consider other things like conformation, posture, eye color, skin color, feathering, and maybe egg shell color (for the hens) as more important in creating that tie.

Purely my opinion. Your customers may disagree.