Improving on hatchery chicks?

[Shifty Joe]

So, got a question regarding my possible over inflated option of my flock... Nothing anyone says will make me think less of my flock, but a reality check would be nice.

Living in north Arkansas it seems that the most local hatchery is Cackle Hatchery, thus all the birds I have came from this hatchery regardless where I purchased them locally. For my first batch of chickens I got 32 barred rocks with 22 of them being roosters. I keep the 10 hens out right, however out of the 22 roosters, I picked the rooster that developed the quickest, was the largest of his brothers, and at the time what fit my definition of what a real rooster should look like (didn't think to check him for breed standards at the time, was tired of having two roosters for every hen

). This is the rooster that has helped provide the eggs for first generation of chicks solely produced on Shifty's farm. I am telling myself that while I understand this doesn't make my Barred Rocks top shelf, I would like to believe that this second generation will be significantly better than the one that came directly from the hatchery.


So dear BYC members... Am I just making a very small step in trying to improve the quality of the flock, but due to limited breeding efforts of hatchery birds I will never really change the overall "gusto" of my flock? Should I be considering bringing in new birds (hens and/or roosters) from a breeder to improve the next generations? Is the quality of hatcheries THAT different than a breeders? If I'm really wanting to do this I need much greater scale than 10 hens and 1 roo?

And maybe finely, being that I also produce cross breeds with my rooster does that influences any of the above questions? Aka, I will be getting pure blood BR but my other hens will be generating crosses with hopeful interesting results. See my tag line for breeds here at Shifty's farm.

My hope is to get into a cycle of producing a new batch of chicks every year and rotating chickens out every 2 to 3 year with the best looking yearlings. While I would like better meat\\eggs producers, I'm also just a firm believer in the health that comes with good breeding.... and I would also like to be able show off my birds and get a compliment or two.

Thoughts?

 

[DAFox]

I am just going to throw my two cents in...and that is all it is worth.
I have mostly hatchery birds and very few breeder stock. The breeder stock is much better looking...there is really no comparison.
If you don't want to start over and would just like to improve what you got, I think quality roosters are the quickest way to spread good genetics around. I'm not sure how many roosters are needed for your size flock for purebred and mixes. I keep my ratio at not less than 1 roo per 10 hens.
Then, as the quality improves, cull the pullets that aren't up to snuff, and keep getting new roosters from breeders.
Dale-Ann

 

[Illia]

Yeah if Hatchery stock is all you have and all you'll use. . . Taking the best looking birds, (according to APA Standards) may help your flock, but there are a LOT of things you just won't be able to get rid of. Take for example my Brahmas. . . If I still had a roo, I'd never fix my flock because all hatchery Brahmas (except lately I think Ideal fixed it a little) have terrible smudgy mossiness or pencilling down their backs. . . And there's just no fixing that unless you have a clean, SQ Brahma. But on other things, sure, I could possibly fix problems like leg length, head type, etc.

Oh and of course another problem Í'll never be able to fix with only hatchery stock is weight/size. . . Brahmas should be huge - Hens weighing in at 9 pounds. My heaviest girl is 5 pounds.

That's the weight of a small hen. . .

 

[Shifty Joe]

wow... so yes hatchery chickens stand out compared to breeds. Four pound difference in your Brahmas from what it should be? blah. So finding a good blood rooster and mixing with the best of the hatchery hen would have positive impact without starting over... maybe one hen too for good measure.

Is this true with all hatcheries or are there a few shinning stars that produce really good breeds?

 

[Shifty Joe]

Alright, starting to look at finding a breeder for either a Barred Rock or Buff Orpington rooster (I really like the Barred Rocks, but my wife is a bigger fan of Buff Orpington personalities). How does one determine if your looking a breeder that has high quality birds (ones that will make babies that come out with super chick capes on

)?

 

[Knock Kneed Hen]

This is just an observation...doesn't relate to you personally, but I found it interesting and disturbing.

I went over to an acquaintances and she showed me her flock of Bantams. She had three roosters and a bunch of hens. Most of them had no toes!! Hatched that way! She said, "I think

it's from inbreeding, I guess I shouldn't let them hatch out any more chicks." Ya think?!

They were all walking around on little nubs of "feet" . . . so sad. Just an example of what sloppy animal husbandry will get you.

 

[Shifty Joe]

Quote:
Gaaa!! Yes, that would the opposite direction I'm trying to go. Basically I'm not wanting to "breed" chickens, but I am looking to have the best "self-sustaining" flock I can. If I can avoid sickly chicks by finding a breeder's Roo every few years, I'm all over it.

By and by, here is a picture of "Big Daddy" to see what the best of the best of my Cackle Hatchery looks like:

 

[herechickchick]

Quote:
Gaaa!! Yes, that would the opposite direction I'm trying to go. Basically I'm not wanting to "breed" chickens, but I am looking to have the best "self-sustaining" flock I can. If I can avoid sickly chicks by finding a breeder's Roo every few years, I'm all over it.

By and by, here is a picture of "Big Daddy" to see what the best of the best of my Cackle Hatchery looks like:

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy30/Shifty_Joe_BYC/BigDaddy.gif

He doesn't look very good, sorry. I would try to find a breeder and see if you could get a nice rooster and put him over your hens and see what you hatch. Then when you have a little more money try and get a hen or 2 from the breeder as well. You have Big Daddy for now but he needs to be replaced if your are wanting to get to more show quality birds. I know you said you chose the rooster that feathered out the fastest but Show Quality BRs feather out really slowly to get the best barring. Speckled Hen may be able to point you in the direction of a good breeder. Also in my experience buy adult birds from breeders, that way you know exactly what you are getting. Hatching eggs are a gamble.

Good Luck

ETA: Here is a nice Barred rock Roo.

 

[scorpian5]

It i unfair to show a pic of a show bird and compare it to yard bird. My neighbor has raised show birds for year and he gives them special feed and cages them separately and has tricks to get them ready for shows.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Quote:
No it's not???
Is this not the goal they say they are looking for? Improvement in the breed? Then that show bird is what you need to be shooting for.
Also, to the no toes post, keep that in mind with yours, you MUST have more than 1 rooster to do this with, or that will be your end result as all your chicks will be related, good chance most of the hens are sisters now, and the roo is probably already related to them too. Best bet if this is reall what you want, is to get 3-4 totally unrelated roos of the absolute best quality you can find.
Split the hens up equally with those roos, and ban or toe punch the resulting chicks so that you can identify which pen they came from later on, then for your F2 season, mix the marked F1 chicks and re breed them to keep from having instantly related offspring, with 4 roos, your combos will hold you for several years without inbreeding or line breeding (which to me is the same thing)
Anyhow, remember to cull heavily, only keep the best of the best back for breeding stock, just liking one doesnt cut it, make sure they are the best each go round. Starting with hatchery birds, it will take many generations, but you'll eventually get there.
I do lots of color breeding. Try that on, not only do you have to watch your type, but then have to select for best color to reach your end goal as well, some are 4-6 year projects, but if you truly love it, its worth it in the end