Is overall health tied to breed?

[MyCircusMyMonkeys]

Hello BYC! There may not be an answer to my question, but I'd love to hear what people's experiences are.

I understand that a lot of a flock's health will relate directly to how well-adjusted the breeds are to where and how they live, so a chicken that would be healthy in a warm climate would be a miserable, sickly little creature in a cold one and vice versa, and an energetic breed might have all sorts of problems cooped up, etc. My question is: in your experience, and in your climate, have you experienced a "healthier" breed? And have you experienced more sickly ones? Whether it's bouncing back from infectious diseases or being less prone to nasty stuff like internal laying, I'd be really interested to know if people have seen patterns.

My own mixed flock is small and new so any generalizations I try to draw will probably say more about the individuals than the breed, which I know is true in a wider context too. For instance, I have two buff orpingtons that are anything but docile, with one little runty fellow who's always been a troublemaker, and a girl who is bossy, unwelcoming to newcomers, and independent. (I love them and think they're great regardless, but still.) We joke that they're full siblings, from the same bad personality parents. It all makes me wonder how much breed plays into anything. I know so little, but I find it fascinating! So anyone who wants to blether me with me about these things, please, don't hold back!

 

[MysteryChicken]

Hello BYC! There may not be an answer to my question, but I'd love to hear what people's experiences are.

I understand that a lot of a flock's health will relate directly to how well-adjusted the breeds are to where and how they live, so a chicken that would be healthy in a warm climate would be a miserable, sickly little creature in a cold one and vice versa, and an energetic breed might have all sorts of problems cooped up, etc. My question is: in your experience, and in your climate, have you experienced a "healthier" breed? And have you experienced more sickly ones? Whether it's bouncing back from infectious diseases or being less prone to nasty stuff like internal laying, I'd be really interested to know if people have seen patterns.

My own mixed flock is small and new so any generalizations I try to draw will probably say more about the individuals than the breed, which I know is true in a wider context too. For instance, I have two buff orpingtons that are anything but docile, with one little runty fellow who's always been a troublemaker, and a girl who is bossy, unwelcoming to newcomers, and independent. (I love them and think they're great regardless, but still.) We joke that they're full siblings, from the same bad personality parents. It all makes me wonder how much breed plays into anything. I know so little, but I find it fascinating! So anyone who wants to blether with me about these things, please, don't hold back!

Broad Genetic Diversity, & Breeding only the strong birds together makes healthier breeds.
Genetics, & diet do play in the health of a chicken, as well as proper biosecurity, & health management practices as well.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Hello BYC! There may not be an answer to my question, but I'd love to hear what people's experiences are.

I understand that a lot of a flock's health will relate directly to how well-adjusted the breeds are to where and how they live, so a chicken that would be healthy in a warm climate would be a miserable, sickly little creature in a cold one and vice versa, and an energetic breed might have all sorts of problems cooped up, etc. My question is: in your experience, and in your climate, have you experienced a "healthier" breed? And have you experienced more sickly ones? Whether it's bouncing back from infectious diseases or being less prone to nasty stuff like internal laying, I'd be really interested to know if people have seen patterns.

My own mixed flock is small and new so any generalizations I try to draw will probably say more about the individuals than the breed, which I know is true in a wider context too. For instance, I have two buff orpingtons that are anything but docile, with one little runty fellow who's always been a troublemaker, and a girl who is bossy, unwelcoming to newcomers, and independent. (I love them and think they're great regardless, but still.) We joke that they're full siblings, from the same bad personality parents. It all makes me wonder how much breed plays into anything. I know so little, but I find it fascinating! So anyone who wants to blether with me about these things, please, don't hold back!

I keep high energy breeds, they do tend to get Cabin Fever when cooped up, but once they get access to free range it makes them happier. I'm just in a situation that I can't free range them yet.

 

[DemeterAD9]

Less to do with any particular breed and more to do with the breeding (genetics). Birds from hatcheries can be a bit iffy as they are looking for numbers and not so much health or temperament. An individual breeder will usually focus on the breed itself and aim to improve the line in the next generation, these would be the “show bird” types that are up to spec with SOP (standard of perfection). That being said, I think there is merit to the mass produced ones as there are more genetics because they are from a larger breeding group. That also means individuals of the same breed can vary greatly and not be true to SOP for that particular breed. Got some BJG from Meyer for a meat bird project and talk about a let down.

Think dogs, pure breeds are a toss up in terms of health, the mass produced ones from puppy mills are worse than the ones from individual but certified good breeders. More often than not pure breeds will also be somewhat inbred somewhere down the line, which may improve some characteristics but also further concentrate the bad ones.

Now think mutts, mixed breeds tend to be more hardy and have less issues. Larger gene pool and all that. Same thing applies to chickens. I’ve only had problems with a dark brahma which may or may not have been a genetic issue. Her mutt daughters have been doing well so far though. Personality wise, that’s a toss up too. Some breeds may be known to be friendly and docile but that doesn’t apply to them all. My friendliest birds are all mutts who happen to be colored layers, my meanest ones seem to be the pure breeds though none are all that aggressive as I cull for anything I don’t like.

Of course you will want to aim for birds with characteristics that are suitable for your environment but I would also say a chicken is a chicken and from my experience with fluffy, small, large, pea comb, big floppy single combs, feathered legs etc, they all have done well for me in MI. I will say I’m breeding away from big combs though as a couple have gotten frost bite.

 

[MyCircusMyMonkeys]

Broad Genetic Diversity, & Breeding only the strong birds together makes healthier breeds.
Genetics, & diet do play in the health of a chicken, as well as proper biosecurity, & health management practices as well.

It's funny—I was struggling to find threads about health & breed before I posted this, and then once I posted I found a lot of different ones. D'oh!!

What I've read since the original post suggests a lot about the health baseline comes down to the breeder/hatchery and how selective they are in only breeding the healthiest birds, like you said. I would love to find a breeder or hatchery that vaccinates for Marek's in my area, but I think only rural king does here in Tennessee and I expect they might not be a great source if I'm looking to raise the healthiest birds.

 

[MyCircusMyMonkeys]

Less to do with any particular breed and more to do with the breeding (genetics). Birds from hatcheries can be a bit iffy as they are looking for numbers and not so much health or temperament. An individual breeder will usually focus on the breed itself and aim to improve the line in the next generation, these would be the “show bird” types that are up to spec with SOP (standard of perfection). That being said, I think there is merit to the mass produced ones as there are more genetics because they are from a larger breeding group. That also means individuals of the same breed can vary greatly and not be true to SOP for that particular breed. Got some BJG from Meyer for a meat bird project and talk about a let down.

Think dogs, pure breeds are a toss up in terms of health, the mass produced ones from puppy mills are worse than the ones from individual but certified good breeders. More often than not pure breeds will also be somewhat inbred somewhere down the line, which may improve some characteristics but also further concentrate the bad ones.

Now think mutts, mixed breeds tend to be more hardy and have less issues. Larger gene pool and all that. Same thing applies to chickens. I’ve only had problems with a dark brahma which may or may not have been a genetic issue. Her mutt daughters have been doing well so far though. Personality wise, that’s a toss up too. Some breeds may be known to be friendly and docile but that doesn’t apply to them all. My friendliest birds are all mutts who happen to be colored layers, my meanest ones seem to be the pure breeds though none are all that aggressive as I cull for anything I don’t like.

Of course you will want to aim for birds with characteristics that are suitable for your environment but I would also say a chicken is a chicken and from my experience with fluffy, small, large, pea comb, big floppy single combs, feathered legs etc, they all have done well for me in MI. I will say I’m breeding away from big combs though as a couple have gotten frost bite.

Thank you for this detailed reply!! "A chicken is a chicken" hahahaha—well said. Do backyard breeders who have bred for health often sell their mutts, or does everyone sort of start it on their own?

 

[Debbie292d]

Hello BYC! There may not be an answer to my question, but I'd love to hear what people's experiences are.

I understand that a lot of a flock's health will relate directly to how well-adjusted the breeds are to where and how they live, so a chicken that would be healthy in a warm climate would be a miserable, sickly little creature in a cold one and vice versa, and an energetic breed might have all sorts of problems cooped up, etc. My question is: in your experience, and in your climate, have you experienced a "healthier" breed? And have you experienced more sickly ones? Whether it's bouncing back from infectious diseases or being less prone to nasty stuff like internal laying, I'd be really interested to know if people have seen patterns.

My own mixed flock is small and new so any generalizations I try to draw will probably say more about the individuals than the breed, which I know is true in a wider context too. For instance, I have two buff orpingtons that are anything but docile, with one little runty fellow who's always been a troublemaker, and a girl who is bossy, unwelcoming to newcomers, and independent. (I love them and think they're great regardless, but still.) We joke that they're full siblings, from the same bad personality parents. It all makes me wonder how much breed plays into anything. I know so little, but I find it fascinating! So anyone who wants to blether me with me about these things, please, don't hold back!

You have asked a very good question and got some great answers!

I'll throw silkies into this convo, as that's all we raise. We're in Wisconsin, where it's commonly 20°F in the winter and a couple of weeks of sub-zero temps.

This breed is naturally prone to vitamin deficiencies. It's also a smaller breed with different feathers than regular chickens. Some are frizzled where their skin actually shows in a breeze. We heat the coops to 40°F. They can, and most will, come outside when it's 20°F or above and not much wind.

We feed them a nutritious feed (Kalmbach's Flock Maker 20%) and supplement vitamins on occasion. Their scratch is actually a layer feed, but they think it's a treat (Kalmbach's Henhouse Reserve). We've been successfully raising/breeding them for almost a decade now.

 

[MysteryChicken]

It's funny—I was struggling to find threads about health & breed before I posted this, and then once I posted I found a lot of different ones. D'oh!!

What I've read since the original post suggests a lot about the health baseline comes down to the breeder/hatchery and how selective they are in only breeding the healthiest birds, like you said. I would love to find a breeder or hatchery that vaccinates for Marek's in my area, but I think only rural king does here in Tennessee and I expect they might not be a great source if I'm looking to raise the healthiest birds.

Marek's Vaccine only slows the progression of the disease if the birds catch it, it doesn't prevent them from catching the disease. Hatcheries don't vaccinate unless requested by the customer, & feed stores don't supply vaccinated chicks.

 

[SourRoses]

Most chicken breeds fare well in most climates, or can be accommodated in some way.
So I would place more emphasis on genetic vigor, effecting the following:
- Immune system
- Nutritional efficiency
- Cardiovascular
- Reproductive System

Of all the many breeds we've tried, I've lost the most birds overall from illness before the first 6 months or so, often to ailments their peers shrugged off, like coccidiosis, fowl pox, etc. If they make it past 6 months, they seem to be in the clear.

Nutritional:
I had the interesting experience of keeping two different lines of the same breed.
The first line (an American strain of WFBS), had horrible issues with nutrient deficiency. I was raising other breed chicks alongside them who were all well, so I knew it was genetic and not the feed or illness.
I gave them supplemental vitamins, but they seemed to have trouble utilizing those as well, and the neurological symptoms worsened. I lost the whole bunch, but one of them seemed healthy for a little while so I tried breeding him. Then his mixed breed chicks all had the same problems so I had to cull all of them.
This year I got a different line of WFBS, imported from Spain. They were all very healthy. Now I'm raising healthy chicks from them.

Cardiovascular:
Some years ago we tried a very large breed, English Orpingtons (much bigger than American Orps). I lost a lot of them, at different ages, all seemingly due to cardiovascular issues. Not all were effected so I kept those, because I love the breed otherwise.
Some breeders put effort into selecting for genetic health. Some don't, or they are new enough to not know how to handle it (breed older birds).

And now the last common killer:
Reproductive issues.
It's perfectly possible to have a line of birds that lay large eggs every day without harming their health. Leghorns are a great example.
But it's a balancing act with a lot of genetic traits involved, and an ideal conformation for laying.
If breeding doesn't take into account the effect of physical alterations on reproductive health, one can increase the problem unintentionally.

A breeder group posted the following, paraphrased loosely from my memory...
"When does an existing line of birds become a new line in the hands of a different breeder?
Answer: The first generation hatched from a pairing they selected. That's how soon critical changes can be made based on the choices of the individual."

This underscores that health does not hold true across a whole breed.

 

[MyCircusMyMonkeys]

Most chicken breeds fare well in most climates, or can be accommodated in some way.
So I would place more emphasis on genetic vigor, effecting the following:
- Immune system
- Nutritional efficiency
- Cardiovascular
- Reproductive System

Of all the many breeds we've tried, I've lost the most birds overall from illness before the first 6 months or so, often to ailments their peers shrugged off, like coccidiosis, fowl pox, etc. If they make it past 6 months, they seem to be in the clear.

Nutritional:
I had the interesting experience of keeping two different lines of the same breed.
The first line (an American strain of WFBS), had horrible issues with nutrient deficiency. I was raising other breed chicks alongside them who were all well, so I knew it was genetic and not the feed or illness.
I gave them supplemental vitamins, but they seemed to have trouble utilizing those as well, and the neurological symptoms worsened. I lost the whole bunch, but one of them seemed healthy for a little while so I tried breeding him. Then his mixed breed chicks all had the same problems so I had to cull all of them.
This year I got a different line of WFBS, imported from Spain. They were all very healthy. Now I'm raising healthy chicks from them.

Cardiovascular:
Some years ago we tried a very large breed, English Orpingtons (much bigger than American Orps). I lost a lot of them, at different ages, all seemingly due to cardiovascular issues. Not all were effected so I kept those, because I love the breed otherwise.
Some breeders put effort into selecting for genetic health. Some don't, or they are new enough to not know how to handle it (breed older birds).

And now the last common killer:
Reproductive issues.
It's perfectly possible to have a line of birds that lay large eggs every day without harming their health. Leghorns are a great example.
But it's a balancing act with a lot of genetic traits involved, and an ideal conformation for laying.
If breeding doesn't take into account the effect of physical alterations on reproductive health, one can increase the problem unintentionally.

A breeder group posted the following, paraphrased loosely from my memory...
"When does an existing line of birds become a new line in the hands of a different breeder?
Answer: The first generation hatched from a pairing they selected. That's how soon critical changes can be made based on the choices of the individual."

This underscores that health does not hold true across a whole breed.

I love this reply and all the experience you brought to the table This is exactly what I've been wondering about! It all seems like such a tricky tightrope to walk. So lines may end up far more important than breeds, I'm guessing?

Do you have any recommendations on how to find experienced breeders who might be focusing on genetic vigor more so than breed standards? Do people even want to sell their chickens if they've been fine-tuning their lines? Like I said, I'm very new to the chicken world so I don't know a lot!