Is there recovery from fatty liver syndrome?

[shaw613]

Hi all .... personally I'm thankful that fall is nearly here! It's been a rough summer here in Colorado, and my chicken flock has been a continuing puzzle. I have a flock of 34 mixed hens that free range all day and have free choice layer feed; they haven't laid well since spring. We've had an exceptionally hot and humid summer, and initially I wrote off the drop in egg laying to heat. I did lose two hens suddenly; they were fine in the morning when I let them out, and by afternoon they had come into the coop and died. I've never had that happen. I buy my chicken feed in a 1000 lb tote from a local mill that roasts soy and corn, with added vitamins and calcium for layers. I started wondering about the feed having enough protein. I changed mills, and purchased a tote of 18% layer that is milo, wheat, alfalfa pellets and some corn. Right away, molting began in the older hens (none more than 2 years old), and I can see they're growing in new feathers fairly quickly. I'm getting 3-5 eggs daily from the 28 hens right now. I took half a dozen hens that had quit laying in for processing last week. After seeing the carcasses, I believe the feed was both deficient in protein and had too much corn. There was so much internal fat, honestly globs of it, in the 18 month old hens. The livers, after processing, have fat around them as well and I've never seen that before. Is that common? The question I have is now that I've changed feeds, are these hens likely to lose some fat and come into lay again? Is there something other than better feed and lots of chasing after bugs that might help? Appreciate any input! Thanks

 

[aart]

Couple thoughts right off the bat.
Free range birds may have been laying out in range area,
rather than it being a 'fat' issue.

How long does 1000# of feed last for 34 birds?
Could be going 'bad' before it's all eaten.
How/where is it stored?

Did you open up the birds that suddenly died to see what was going on in there?
How did yo know the processed birds were filled with fat?

 

[shaw613]

Couple thoughts right off the bat.
Free range birds may have been laying out in range area,
rather than it being a 'fat' issue.

How long does 1000# of feed last for 34 birds?
Could be going 'bad' before it's all eaten.
How/where is it stored?

Did you open up the birds that suddenly died to see what was going on in there?
How did yo know the processed birds were filled with fat?

I've had all these thoughts as well. I shut the birds in the house and enclosed run for a few days to see if there were hens laying .... No more eggs. The grain here is all stored in an old garage; we're ranchers and have several mixes for different animals so it's kept dry. This particular mill roasts soy daily, and it was mixed the day I brought it home .... It's not gone bad.

At the processing shed, the woman there pointed the fat out to me as she was bagging the hens ... Of course for stewing the fat is desirable and she thought they would sure make nice broth. She does hundreds a month and these hens were unusually fat.

I didn't examine the hens that died ... Sure wish now I would have. I have tests coming from the state avian service to test for other illnesses; have considered even Mycoplasma but they have no symptoms of that. Now that I have seen the internal fat, I'm pretty sure they had too much corn.

 

[Folly's place]

What breeds do you have?
Hens not actively laying eggs really shouldn't be eating a layer feed, it's too high in calcium for them. Could they be eating more of these feeds because the feeds are lower in protein too, and what is the fat % in the feeds?
Some vitamins do deteriorate over time after milling, so here we want to use feeds that are within two months of milling, not older.
This has been a very hot summer here, and our hens aren't producing as we'd like either. Will they get fat as hens can do when not in production? maybe.
Mary

 

[aart]

It's not gone bad.

Was thinking more about the possible degradation of the vitamins/minerals/amino acids in the premix that I assume is added to the grains/beans.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have tests coming from the state avian service to test for other illnesses;

Please post the results. I'd love to hear what they say. Fatty liver syndrome is real but really hard for me to get a handle on.

I don't know how much experience you have had butchering females versus males. I butcher pullets, hens, cockerels, and roosters. The amount of fat in a female is huge compared to a male, whether she is laying or not. Before a hen even starts laying she builds up a lot of excess fat. This fat reserve is what a hen mostly lives on when she is broody. That way she can stay on the nest incubating eggs instead of having to be out looking for food. Most of this fat is usually in a "fat pad" in the pelvic area but you will find fat scattered through out her body, including on organs. Each hen can be different. Sometimes I wonder how they get an egg through that fat pad to lay it but they do. Some of the ones with a lot of fat were my better layers. They tend to be better winter layers too.

At the processing shed, the woman there pointed the fat out to me as she was bagging the hens

Did she say they were fatter than normal or just pointing it out? I'd value her judgment whether this was a normal amount of fat.

You mentioned chasing bugs. It sounds like they may be foraging for part of their food. The more they forage the less percentage of their nutrients come from your feed. If they forage for much you've lost some control over what they eat. Makes it harder to evaluate the effectiveness of what you feed them. It could be really interesting to hear what the state lab says.

 

[Folly's place]

Chickens afflicted with fatty live generally die with little advanced warning, and aren't provided with the level of routine wellness care and testing that humans or many pet mammals receive. So, I doubt that it's been studied, from a 'found it early enough' standpoint. Avian veterinary medicine, dealing with parrots, may be relevant, but again, I have no idea. you could research in that direction.
Domestic cats have an acute fatty liver syndrome, a separate problem entirely, requiring pretty intensive management to achieve recovery.
Mary

 

[LaFleche]

I only feed some corn during prolonged very cold winter periods with temperatures way below minus 15°C. Otherwise my hens get too fat despite foraging from dawn until dusk in their very spacious and lush run.

Switching from wheat to barley will help and providing them with fresh whole vegetables like carrots to make them work for their food.