Is this diet balanced?

[Pukkits]

Oh great and wise chicken keepers,
After years of just a few chickens, our pullets we raised this year has jumped our flock from two to ten hens (1 barred rock, 9 orpingtons chocolate/lavender/buff). Due to human dietary needs, we feed organic. The combination of increased hens and feed prices going up has me looking to get the most out of our feed.

Currently I'm feeding unlimited oyster shells and Purina Organic Start and Grow (18% protein). I recently started fementing 3 cups of Purina Organic scratch grains (a splash of apple cider vinegar and water to cover, fermented 2-3 days). After a few days, they've started getting very excited about their fermented grain for breakfast. We do offer fruit or vegetable scraps as available.

My question is, are there any nutritional holes I'm missing? I feel like because they have access to the grower crumble, if the grain isn't working they can just eat crumble. They are eating far less crumble since I started feeding the fermented grain. Eggs look normal, but I think there's only three laying right now (5 year old buff, plus I think two? 18 week pullets laying little eggs). I'd appreciate input, as my goal is healthy birds even with a tighter feed budget.

 

[OnlySympathy]

3 cups of scratch is way too much. The absolute most I would do is 1 cup with 2 cups of their normal feed to replace the other two. But even then that is a ton of scratch. Something like a half cup scratch mixed 2.5 cups of their normal feed then fermenting it would be way better for them

 

[Mother of Chaos]

This^^^.

What people don’t think about is that for every cup (or any other measure) of scratch you feed, they lose a cup of the balanced feed.

Scratch doesn’t have nearly the amount of protein that they need. You’re essentially feeding them Twinkies and potato chips instead of a nutritious meal.

 

[FarmerGirl101]

Echoing what everyone else has already said but you are just feeding them a lot of treats with low nutritional content. This is super appealing to them so they eat way less of the balanced feed than they should be. Reduce how much scratch you give them by at least two cups. Also feed the scratch and table scraps in the second half of the day so they get a good portion of their balanced feed in.

Also, I understand you have to feed organic but do be mindful to stick with brand names as organic feeds tend to be lower in nutritional value while being pricier compared to non-organic feed.

 

[Folly's place]

Scratch is meant to be fed as an occasional treat, not as part of their daily diet. Of course they prefer it to their balanced diet, we all tend to prefer pop corn and other goodies too. And the fruits and veggies are further decreasing their protein levels and generally also unbalancing their diet.
You have pullets who also are still growing, and can't do best on your current plan. Are all those fruits and veggies also organic?
Are you checking the mill date on each bag of their primarty diet? It should be fed within two months or so of it's mill date for best vitamin content.
Mary

 

[NatJ]

My question is, are there any nutritional holes I'm missing? I feel like because they have access to the grower crumble, if the grain isn't working they can just eat crumble. They are eating far less crumble since I started feeding the fermented grain.

If they have a major nutritional lack, they might leave the fermented scratch grain and eat more of the grower crumble.

But the chickens might eat until they have enough calories (mostly from scratch), and then realize they need more of something (example: protein) so they go eat grower crumble at that point. That would mean the chickens eat more total food and get fat. That is less healthy for them, and also wastes your money (because you are buying more calories than they need.)

I recently started fementing 3 cups of Purina Organic scratch grains (a splash of apple cider vinegar and water to cover, fermented 2-3 days). After a few days, they've started getting very excited about their fermented grain for breakfast. We do offer fruit or vegetable scraps as available.

If you just want the chickens to get excited, you can put grower crumble in a dish and add water.

Chickens will usually get very excited about that too, if they only get it once or twice a day.

The difference with using the grower crumble instead of scratch: after the chickens eat the "treat" of wet crumble, they do not need to eat extra calories of dry crumble to get any missing nutrients. They can eat just enough of the dry crumble to finish meeting their calorie needs for the day, and that gives them enough of all the important nutrients too.

The combination of increased hens and feed prices going up has me looking to get the most out of our feed.

You may have already thought of these, but I'll mention them in case any are new to you.

Ways to save money on feed include:
--make sure it is not being wasted (spilled, eaten by mice or wild birds, etc.)
--see if there is a cheaper feed that will provide what you & your chickens need
--see if you can save money by purchasing from a different place or in a different quantity (but if you store it wrong and it molds, that does not save any money, so be a little careful here.)
--consider whether you can reduce the number of chickens in the flock. Fewer chickens means they eat less feed.


You mentioned giving fruit & veggie scraps. You can also give other kinds of food scraps to the chickens. Any food that you would otherwise throw away is cheaper than buying scratch, and most foods work as a source of calories. You still need to keep the total amount reasonable (same as with scratch: you don't want them filling up on empty calories and being short of protein or specific vitamins or minerals). Some human foods are good sources of protein and other nutrients (example: a cooked egg that got dropped on the floor and then no human wanted to eat it.)

Buying human-grade food for chickens is almost always more expensive than buying chicken food, which is why I only mentioned giving things that would be thrown away anyway.

 

[Pukkits]

Thank you all!

So I've been stuffing them with tasty but not healthy carbs. Got it. I'll switch it up and mix a much smaller portion of grain ferment in with crumble to make a wet mash for them. More balanced crumble, less snacks.

A lot of other organic feeds I've tried were a disappointment. Many had a bunch of their nutrients as powder that went to the bottom that the chickens wouldn't eat. Maybe if I'm adding some wet ferment to make a paste the girls will actually eat it. I just got tired of paying for powder weight. Or they were mills I'd never heard of and had super low protein content. I'm going to keep looking though.

We do feed organic produce, usually greens bits from salad leftovers or the occasional melon rind. There is a local organic-only grocers that is very picky with their produce, they give away bags of scrap for free, you just have to be there when they have bags ready to go. I compost most of it and just pull the chicken friendly stuff. I've never seen anything moldy in their bags (they are super selective, so it's mostly just wilted stuff they pull daily) so it's a good produce source. Frankly a lot of what they throw away looks the same quality as what another local store sells.

I'm checking mill dates, but unfortunately that's why I'm not trying to buy in bulk. Ten chickens won't go through a bulk purchase fast enough.

Critters have been an issue. Thankfully the new pullets are super offended by wild birds and chase them off, which helps. Mice are the issue. Stored food is in metal trash cans, but feeder food is out. I pull one dish each night, but I like to leave the other out so when they get up at dawn there's food out and they don't stress or have food scarcity aggression with each other. I used to have a little feral cat that squeezed through a hole near the roof that I neglected to fix. She is very skilled. Unfortunately some roving tomcats chased her from our yard, then I finally got her in for TNR. She and I are still rebuilding trust. I feed her whenever she shows up (I don't leave food out for her), but she's never liked me. Had she the dexterity, she would flip me the middle toe bean. Zero gratitude for years of feeding, watering (supplied in summer, and thawing a bowl for her three times a day in winter) and building her a house with a heated bed. I'm hoping she forgives me and moves back in soon, as she would deal with the mice in a week flat.

We added some extra pullets for family members who wanted to buy eggs from us, but then eggs became more available and they aren't as interested. We have a pair of five year old hens, which while not super old are aging, that will stick around as long as they feel like, which is a variable in flock size (and food). Thankfully the barred rock survived her EYP treatment. She hasn't laid since, but I'd rather have her just stop laying than have laying risk her health. I've considered rehoming some of the new pullets due to feed costs and the family member no longer being interested in eggs. They are still adjusting the pecking order, but if I get a true bully (not just pecking order stuff) I'll probably rehome it. I think the neighbor that took my accidental lavender orpington roosters (one for him, one for his FIL, both breed chickens) would love one of my chocolate orpingtons, as he admired them while he was here.

I've only been feeding that much fermented grain for about two weeks, so hopefully I've not done too much damage. The hard part will be getting them back to crumble after so much junk food. Hopefully wetting the crumble will help.

 

[Perris]

Purina Organic scratch grains

I am no fan of bagged feeds but it is ridiculous to call this junk food. You have been misinformed. That is not enough to sustain your chickens, but it is not junk food like Twinkies or other ultra-processed-food.

If you want to feed them well with homemade feed you might find these articles useful
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...eat-tears-a-calculator-or-deep-pockets.78655/
and an update a year later
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/wholesome-homemade-feed-2.79307/
This is the sort of thing it looks like (it varies; see articles for explanations) and a couple of times a week it is supplemented with sardines, live mealworms, dairy or other animal protein.

You can see the results of feeding just this, with no commercial feed at all, by searching for my photos all over BYC, including in competitions for hens or roos or whatever. And while my flock also free ranges dawn till dusk and finds about 50% of their food for themselves from the anthropods, plants and other life in the garden, I know from one bird that had to live penned for a year, and thus depend on it 100%, that it can suffice on its own.

 

[NatJ]

A lot of other organic feeds I've tried were a disappointment. Many had a bunch of their nutrients as powder that went to the bottom that the chickens wouldn't eat. Maybe if I'm adding some wet ferment to make a paste the girls will actually eat it. I just got tired of paying for powder weight.

The usual solution to that problem is to feed it wet. Either a wet mash (get it wet and give it to the chickens), or actually fermenting it.

When it's all wet, the powder stays stuck to the feed, and the chickens eat it too.

I would not pay extra for a feed of that type (as compared with pellets or crumble), but if it is the cheaper option then you can make it work by making it wet.