Judging Leg Length

[Ryu]

I've been flipping through the standard and can't find a description of Short, Medium, and Long shanks and thighs.

I'm trying to find some guidelines to help with culling my exhibition Cornish. Any help appreciated.

 

[blackred]

I was told by Billy Grimes about 2 weeks ago that a Cornish legs should be 1/3 of it body height, but as we all know in exhibition things get out of proportion. Or in this case shorter.
To me if it gets to the point that they can't breed naturally then it is wrong. But again as we all know Cornish breeders are notorious for AIing their birds.
I have started with Dark Cornish bantams this year and have found this forum to be useful -

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cornish_breeders/

Pose your questions there and you should get some great answers from some old time breeders. Most of them are at the Cornish Nationals this weekend in California, but will get back to you.

For what it is worth I have seen a good surge in Large Cornish in the last few years.

Bob

 

[pocopoyo]

I believe that terms like short, medium and long in the Standard are left ambiguous on purpose. Each breeder and judge has to make their own judgement on what this means for their particular breed. Medium is going to mean something different on an Old English Game than it is on a New Hampshire. I raise Modern Games which are supposed to have 'LONG' legs. I have started measuring total length ( tip of beak to tip of toes ) and shank length. From these values I can determine a ratio of shank length to total length. For "LONG" legs as in Moderns, I am selecting for the highest ratio value. For 'SHORT' legs as in Cornish, you would select for the lowest value. I don't know what the perfect ratio value would be for these breeds. I think that if I collect this information for a few years and compare with what is doing the best at the shows, I should have a better idea of the ratio should be.

PocoPoyo

 

[Ryu]

Things definately get out of proportion. I don't know that asking the Yahoo group is the most unbiased source for the answer to this question. One old time breeder told me 'you have to build the barn first', my comeback was 'if the design is fundamentally unsound to begin with, it doesn't matter how pretty you tin it--it's still going to fall down'. I always try to breed to the standard. I've found that in the long run there is usually a good reason to do that.

I am working on my measurements for culling my birds this year. I prefer to come up with ratios and 'ideal' measurements to keep in track and not let my eye wander. Just weighing them was a good starting point, I was surprised to see how far over my standard some of my birds were. I've been looking at pictures of other breeds listed as having Medium length legs and it appears that the hock joint is clearly below the body cavity, in most cases just below the body fluff.

 

[saladin]

ryu,

I agree totally with you concerning the ability to naturally breed.

As with Cornish, I'm not convinced that it is the legs are just too short but also too wide apart which keeps them from breeding right. The late Ken Herring had some of the best Cornish in the south (I have some of his birds). And he never used AI that I'm aware of. Last time I talked to him before he died he said he'd had Cornish for over 50 years. saladin

 

[Ryu]

I started out with birds from Ken.

I have not had to do any AI. I do not plan on ever using AI--unless it is to maintain show condition on a particularly valuable individual. Most of what I consider my most important breeding goals don't have anything to do with showing: Egg quality, breeding longevity, overall vitality.

I've got a picture of what my ultimate pair of Cornish looks like in my mind, hopefully I'll get close someday!

 

[saladin]

Last year at Lakecity, I saw some dark cornish that a fellow brought from VA for Danny. They were awesome. I'm trying to remember the fellow's name but it escapes me right now. saladin

 

[Ryu]

I picked up a really nice trio from RS Keith this past fall. I handed off one of my two original Herring roos to Danny at Ohio Nationals. Hopefully Diesel is enjoying his winter in FL!

Diesel

There were a lot if things I liked about this bird. I really liked how he carried himself and he was a very healthy bird. Still very fertile at 2 years. I hatched a few chicks from him at the end of Nov. He was in a breeding pen until he went to Ohio Nationals.

Diesel's son TW is taking over for him. He pretty much looks like Dad, but is a little longer in the leg an little rounder in the breast.

Danny told me to be patient, RS told me to put my foot on the gas....

Either way I'm hatching a bunck of chunky monkeys, hopefully this will be a better breeding year. I was 20 roosters and 6 hens this past year, I would love it if the numbers were flipped and doubled!

 

[saladin]

Great thing about Cornish is you can always eat the culls! yum, yum.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
It's not a standard if it is open to interpretation. Proportions should be spelled out, or specific criteria listed.