Just started building ..... Insulation ??

[Chickens-246]

Personally, I don't see why anyone insulates their coop. Venting is required year around and are usually installed at the top, heat raises, so heat is not retained.

Try opening a window in your house during winter and see how much the insulation does.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
This may seem sensible but is incorrect -- there IS often good practical benefit to insulation, even when ventilation is also occurring.

A coop can warm up a good bit during the day and the better you retain that heat at night via insulation the warmer the coop stays. This is *especially* true in coops that are well-adapted to store heat into the night, e.g. large coops or dirt- or slab-floored ones or coops built with very high thermal mass materials inside them. And unless you have quite a huge amount of ventilation open, e.g. a whole side is totally open, it actually takes a good while for that heat to escape and temperatures to equilibrate with the outside air. Often, the time it takes is much longer than the time til the air starts warming up again the next day. But even, worst-case-scenario, if your coop DOES have so proportionately-much ventilation that it reaches outdoor temps overnight, insulation reduces the *duration* of those temperatures. And finally, if you are one of those people who runs an electric appliance to heat the coop (or even just to keep your water ice-free), insulation is FOR SURE beneficial, because it reduces the kWh you consume.

To give a couple examples, admittedly from the large end of the size spectrum: my chicken building is 15x40, slab-floored and very heavily insulated. With three or four large popdoors open during the daytime, sometimes on opposite sides of the building so there is a brisk breeze through the coop, the slab and insulation keep the building from dropping below the low 20s F in the winter despite outdoor lows down to -30 F. Yes, that was true BEFORE I started running my greenhouse-style solar heater which does keep it a bit warmer now. (I have few enough chickens in there that I do not generally have ventilation open at night during the cold part of the winter.)

Also there is my barn, which is about 30x50, slab floor, somewhat insulated but very drafty (the eaves are all open, as is the hay-drop hole to the well-ventilated loft), with no animals living in it except various mice. Despite the aforementioned outdoor lows down to -30F (and a number of days where the high does not exceed 0 F), the lowest the barn thermometer has ever been is +2 F.

Finally, when I still had my chicken tractor (see link to page about it via my personal page), on frosty nights in autumn the 2.5x4.3 'house' portion would stay at least 10F warmer overnight than the outdoor air, despite a good-sized vent left open a couple inches at the highest part of the wall. (I never tried to keep chickens in there overwinter, though).

So it is not a theory thing, it is what actually HAPPENS. And what actually HAPPENS is that insulation really DOES often retain enough heat, for long enough, to be really QUITE USEFUL despite open ventilation.

Another way to look at it: is it pointless to wear a winter coat just cuz you leave it unzipped? Are you really no warmer than if you took it off?

Pat

 

[iajewel]

I live in a horrible climate. Winter temp are often colder then Anckridge (sp) Alaska and summer humidity more then Florida. The insolatioin helps with cooling and with heat, drafts etc. I also brood in that building and Im grateful for all the isolation I can get. Yes, they need ventilation. I have screened windows and a doggy type door where they can go out side and get all the fresh air they want year round. However in the winter, other then when I open a door, its pretty darn warm in there and they are pretty darn healthy and happy.

 

[funonahonda]

If you are trying to cut cost why would you use 4x6s for the floor frame, Don't get me wrong that is pretty sturdy though.

 

[iajewel]

I like the poster use pretty expensive sturdy materials. I find that they last longer, need less repair and I have more time to spend enjoying my chickens rather then fixing things. It also improves the value of your property. Well.. used to LOL.

 

[GermanChick]

Quote:
Tell that my DH

...... he likes to over-engineer. All the things he built (house, barn), you can also use as bomb shelter

 

[iajewel]

Quote:
Tell that my DH

...... he likes to over-engineer. All the things he built (house, barn), you can also use as bomb shelter

 

[Chickens-246]

I have a good understanding of thermodynamics. All I will say is insulation doesn't do much with a hole in the wall going to the outside. I can explain why, but it's not worth my effort, everyone has their opinion and more than likely hard set on it's usefulness. If one wants to insulate, go for it, personally, I don't see the point.

All I can say about your "results", is your coop and barn the same size, same materials, same number and size windows facing in the same directions, with the same amount of openings, the same amount of drafts, same number of chickens? In order to make a fair comparison, things have to be identical. More than likely your barn substantially larger and drafty.

2x6 are correct for a floor.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Well, I have a good understanding of "thermodynamics" too (that isn't the right term though). And it DOES do a considerable amount in real-world livestock-barn situations.

Look, if you would prefer a theoretical treatment of the heat-balance situation, here you go:

The coop reaches a certain maximum temperature during daytime, mainly due to solar gain and the natural warmth of daytime air. When the sun sets and outdoor air cools, the coop will start to cool down -- but if it cools down SLOWLY ENOUGH, it will still be significantly above ambient outdoor temperature the next morning when it starts to be re-warmed by the sun and daytime air.

So it all hinges on how rapidly it cools down.

One factor that affects speed of cooling is your ventilation (air exchange rate, and temperature differential of that air); but other factors include coop size, coop thermal mass, and insulation.

IN REAL WORLD COOP SITUATIONS, except in very tiny coops, the contribution of realistic-size ventilation rates is small enough, relative to the other factors, that the coop DOES retain daytime heat for quite a while, often into the next day.

If you want equations, let me know, I would be happy to provide them.

Point being, from a theoretical standpoint I am right. Also, more importantly, from a PRACTICAL standpoint I am right. Perhaps you have not been around enough unheated livestock buildings, attached garages, etc etc to have noticed this, but, it's the way it WORKS

All I can say about your "results", is your coop and barn the same size, same materials, same number and size windows facing in the same directions, with the same amount of openings, the same amount of drafts, same number of chickens? In order to make a fair comparison, things have to be identical. More than likely your barn substantially larger and drafty.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I was not comparing my coop to my barn, that would make no sense.

I was pointing out that even though both of them have considerable ventilation, esp. the barn, they both stay quite a lot warmer than outdoor temperature in wintertime. On account of being insulated (as well as large and slab-floored). Thus the insulation has considerable value despite concurrent ventilation.

Why people treat this as an abstract thought-experiment is beyond me, when actual real world examples exist all over the place

Pat​