Lowest Pecking Order Silkie Wont Leave Box Day after startin Piperazin

[PennyPew]

Hi! I'm a new backyard Chicken owner (about 9 months now) and have been reading the forum for a while now. (Fantastic information - Thanks everyone!!)
But, now, I'm at a loss for what to do!
In a very, long nutshell, here is the situation:


Weight: No number, but this past week I noticed they all (except the Silkie actually) seem thin around the breastbone.

Weather: Texas. Spring like. Alternating 30's to 80's. Rainy then sunny.

Environment: Fenced area under tree about 15x40. Grass is all eaten, just dirt and old straw from winter left. Needs to be cleaned out, will do Saturday.
4, raised, secluded nesting boxes in a coop area, further protected with additional fencing(sides and top), left open all day and closed at night.


History:
- Birds worked out pecking order well, Silkie ended up on bottom, but there was no overt negative treatment of her (just last to eat, no pecking or chasing away).
-OCT 09 I gave piperazine in water i to all birds because the Silkie felt thin, thought I saw odd droppings. All birds handled it well over all. (Except the seabright (the only one laying at that time) stopped laying and went into a molt the very next day, figured just a coin incidence with colder weather coming.) Silkie plumped up, seemed a bit more energetic. All good.
-NOV: All birds laying, some occasionally soft or mishappen, but generally everyone is laying "perfect" eggs every day now.
-Mid-FEB:
*2 of the birds had pasty butt to the extent that I had to clean in warm water twice. That had cleared up after that, all stools looked normal and all birds were active, laying and healthy.
*Easter Egger (one who had a pasty butt), started becoming very insistently friendly. Insistently jumped into my lap and "cuddled"/"slept". Which, I didn't know if she was wanting warmth, being friendly or if she was sick? She seemed active and was laying so I dis-regarded.
-TWO WEEKS AGO
*Started suspecting a few of the pullets might be bit too thin 'round breast area (I'm still trying to get a "feel" for that)

- THIS WEEK:
*Barred Rock (top bird) started chasing across coop to pick on Silkie, pull feathers, and aggressively antagonize. This hadn't happened before. Barred Rock also took to sitting on roof of roosting area at night, (still within a safe enclosure) and didn't sleep with the other birds.

-YESTERDAY (TH.)
*AM: Let all the ladies out in the yard to get grass (I do that sometimes when I can pen the dogs into the house). ALL (including silkie) wandered happily in yard.
*4pm: Gave more Piperazine (After reading in forums thought I should re-treat with that, and then do Ivermectin in a few weeks)
*7pm: Let the ladies out again, but Silkie wouldn't come out of box.

-TODAY (FRI)
- 7am: Silkie wouldn't leave nesting box when all others ran out to food and water. She usually has an egg early, so I didn't think anything.
-2pm: Came home from work. Silkie had layed an egg in nesting box (hers are smaller so I know it was her) and some other ladies layed eggs in same box as well. BUT... Silkie had moved over to the OTHER box, just next to it. The box is plastic storage box (easy to disinfect) with hole cut in front and lid on top. She won't move. I rotated the box around, she didn't move. I took the lid off the top, she didn't move. I touched her back and she let out a strange (?) sound. As she is usually not ever talkative like the others, I'm not sure what her voice is like. But, now, she lets out a soft-taradactyl like sound that is def. different than the others.

????
? Is she broody? If yes, wouldn't she be broody ON the eggs? Would the other ladies have chased her away from them, that's why she's not ON eggs?
? Is it coincidence that it is concurrent with giving Piperazine?
? Is the Piperz. causing throat worm to be irritated? (I read about gapeworms, had watched for them, but like I said, the silkie is pretty quiet, never opens her mouth or "gapes / gasps", and I spend a lot of time with the pullets since I work at home and take my breaks in the coop .

?Should I let her sit there? Will she eat? Drink?

AAAAGH!:
At this very, very, second, I am looking out my window to the coop and see Silkie walking around, drinking water and pecking at ground! Oh my goodness. And she is 2 feet from Barred Rock who is just lounging in a dustbath with the other ladies. So does this mean all is well and she was just broody?

I'm still posting this for two reasons : 1. I spent a lot of time typing and maybe some other person who wonders "sick?" "broody?" will benefit. 2. I do still have a couple questions:

Q1. Is my piperazine for 3 days followed by ivermect. 3 weeks later still the right regimin?
Q2: So Silkie was broody? (Why concurrent with piperz.?). Pullets go broody NEXT to eggs, not ON them all the time?
Q3: How much pecking on the little guy is too much pecking? Any at all?

-----
I realize this is long, but I am hoping more is better than less, and maybe it'll help someone else?

THANKS FOR ANY ANSWERS TO Q1/Q2/Q3 and attention anyone can give to this long, long, long narrative!

PP
6 pullets.
Easter Egger, 15 months old
Seabright, 15 months old
Additional 9 month pullets, raised from chicks, born August 2009 : Silkie, EasterEgger2, Silver Laced Wyndedotte, Barred Rock.
It is the Silkie, Ton-Ton (fluffball) that I am worried about.

 

[msdoolittle]

Honestly, sounds like Silkie is broody! No, they will NOT move, and make themselves look like a giant Pompom and they will screech at you very unhappily. My Silkie, Winky, is currently broody (I live in TX, BTW), so it must just be 'time'.

I do not know anything about medicating, because I do not do it. My chickens have never been ill. I think that, as a whole, we tend to reach for medicine when we don't need it. (However, I do not know your situation) So, I can't answer any questions about your meds.

As far as pecking order, you are probably correct about Ton-Ton. Going by your breeds, I'm sure she's smallest, and the smallest tend to get crowded out and occasionally chased. So, every now and then you may see another hen snatch out a few feathers on Ton-Ton, and do some chasing. It is too much when you are seeing bloody wounds. At that point, you need to remove her immediately, and allow her to heal. I personally am about to separate all my Bantams from my standards, not due to fighting, but because the poor little ones just get crowded out and stepped on a lot!

And, when you feel the breastbone (keel), please take note that it will NOT feel like a storebought chicken carcass! My Silkies have always felt 'thin' to me for a bird (I have parrots, and a LOT more poultry), but they are very healthy. Even my standards do not possess big, huge breast muscle. Our concept of how a chicken is 'supposed to feel' is skewed by being exposed to your grocery store chickens! My silkies breasts are more like "V"s than "m"s. Does that make sense? That is, they are sharper, not rounded like a Cornish cross.

Good luck!

 

[Terri O]

Very good response! I think she is/was broody. My banties make a scary growl sound right now when I pick them up to see if they have "extra" eggs underneath. Terri O

 

[PennyPew]

Thanks Terri and Ms. Doolittle.

Having a personal response giving a second opinion re: broody vs. sick is certainly comforting. Ton-Ton seems to be "done with it" already. Been running around like normal again since yesterday afternoon. *Q*1*Does broody just sometimes happen in fits and starts like that? **

And about the medication... I began this thinking I'd never use medication (that was one of the advantages to me, I loved the idea of avoiding meds. all together), but the more I read it seemed like "everyone" tended to worm the birds 1-2x a year.
Ms. Doolittle, I very much agree with your sentiment that everyone's situation is different, and I also am not asking this in a spirit of disrespecting anyone who is on a meds. routine, but....

How does one go about avoiding use of meds. as much as possible? All I know (I think) is:
*** Keep it clean (I'm posting another thread re; best way to do that, as I think that becomes a subject unto itself!)
***"Some" worms are okay, hens will develop a tolerance and handle them, provided the house is clean.

Q*2?* How do you know if your ladies have "too many" worms to handle?
Q*3?* I imagine all birds will have some if you let them outdoors to grab bugs etc., and just the fact that they are constantly walking past droppings on the ground. They have a large area, so it is spread out to the extent I couldn't possibly go picking up chicken poo like dog poo, but... it is still small enough that they invariably will be pecking the ground for food near the same places they poo. So confusing!

q4: Is there a thread somewhere dedicated to "how to" responsibly avoid meds, but still know if you are in a situation where it is "unfortunately" needed?

Thanks very, very much! PPew

 

[tamelroy]

I found this under: http://forum.backyardpoultry.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7955021
I hope it helps a little for you. I never worm them, I just keep an eye out for their health I seem to know right away when something is off with them. Good luck!


How often should I worm
You will also be given conflicting information on how many times you should worm your flock, this will all depend on how you manage them and if they are free range or caged birds, chickens on an open range will need worming more than the caged birds, birds in warm humid climates need worming more often than caged birds
Free range – 4 times a year
Caged birds – 2 times a year or when needed

Poultry can tolerate a small percentage of worms in their systems, you should never worm your birds just because you think it’s a good idea, and you should never worm them more than they really need to be wormed

What to look for – are your birds worm infested
2. They look scrawny and scruffy
3. They start to lose weight
4. They are laying fewer eggs
5. They start to affect the birds general health

 

[sourland]

Sounds like broody behavior just happens to be coincidental to worming.

 

[PennyPew]

Sigh of relief...

This is a very fabulous checklist, thank you! I was worming because they seemed to be losing weight, but... they were still laying the same number of eggs, so looking back I likely was being over zealous. I'll definitely be more informed next time!

"Poultry can tolerate a small percentage of worms in their systems, you should never worm your birds just because you think it’s a good idea, and you should never worm them more than they really need to be wormed

What to look for – are your birds worm infested
2. They look scrawny and scruffy
3. They start to lose weight
4. They are laying fewer eggs
5. They start to affect the birds general health"