Marans Mystery

ZooAtHome

Songster
Jun 7, 2018
147
270
136
NW Oregon
I purchased two "Dominant Copper" chicks from a farm store back in April. Store said they got them from Jenks Hatchery. They are supposed to be a cross between a Black Copper Marans rooster and a Barred Rock hen. This cross should have resulted in sex linked chicks with the males having white dots on their head. Males should also be barred while the females would be black. I've confirmed that here in the genetics and breeding forums. (Thanks, everyone!)

This is what they looked like when I brought them home:
Peppercorn.jpg

The second chick was almost identical except it also has feathered legs. Neither had white dots on their heads. I believe they were about 3-5 days old when I got them, but that is an uneducated guess.

Here they are at about 3 weeks of age:
Salt and Pepper-4265.jpg

The first chick, on the left, is the same chick as above, the second one, on the right, has the feathered legs, even though you can't see them here. Note the lack of a white dot on their heads. Also note that the second chick's comb is growing in much faster than the first's. This is where I started to question what I had been told.

Fast forward to today. Here is chick number one at about 5 1/2 weeks old now. Tiny comb, no dot, no bars. All as it should be, except that she has clean legs. Not sure if that is typical of Marans crosses or not, but I suspect it happens. In any case, I'm pretty sure she is a pullet:
Marans-4354.jpg
Marans-4358.jpg
Marans-4367.jpg


And now chick number two, also 5 1/2 weeks old. Still no bars, definitely feathered feet ... but look at that comb and those wattles. And those feet seem huge. Even with my lack of experience, this looks like a young cockerel to me. Even the way he stands and walks seems cockish the past couple of days:
Marans-4353.jpg
Marans-4340.jpg
Marans-4382.jpg


Here are a couple of pictures of them together, for comparison. Pretty sure you can tell which is which:
Marans-4369.jpg

(Note: Middle bird below is one of my Colorpack Layer Easter Eggers. She is about a week older than the other two. Pretty sure she is a pullet.)
Marans-4377.jpg


So, first of all, do you agree that I have one pullet and one cockerel or is it still too early to tell? If so, then the boy at the very least is NOT the cross I thought I had purchased. In that case, any guesses as to what they might actually be? I'm hoping they at least have Black Copper Marans in them, but I am not at all sure of anything at this point. They are wonderful little birds and I can't say I mind that much that one is male (at least not yet, lol), but the mystery of the thing is driving me bonkers. :confused:

Any and all input is appreciated. I suspect I may have to wait for them to grow up more before I get my answers, if I ever do. But I thought it might be fun to try guessing now. I am pretty sure I'll learn something in the process.
 
I would agree you have a pullet and a rooster, but another few weeks should confirm it as that comb grows on the suspect male.

I know nothing of that mix.
 
Well, a quick google search of this brings me to this link:
http://duncanspoultry.com/dominant-copper-maran-female/

They say that this is supposed to be a mix of a BCM and a BR, and in the proper combination to make sex links. The pics, as you scroll through them on the site, show a male BCM though, not what this mix should look like.

I agree, you have a cockerel, but I would wager that this isn't the mix they say, that they could both be BCM or similar.
 
Well, a quick google search of this brings me to this link:
http://duncanspoultry.com/dominant-copper-maran-female/

They say that this is supposed to be a mix of a BCM and a BR, and in the proper combination to make sex links. The pics, as you scroll through them on the site, show a male BCM though, not what this mix should look like.

I agree, you have a cockerel, but I would wager that this isn't the mix they say, that they could both be BCM or similar.

Yeah, I've researched the mix as well. Not a lot of info out there, but it all seems to be consistent on what the cross is supposed to be. The store told me they came from Jenks Hatchery (https://jenks-hatchery-inc.myshopify.com/pages/egg-layers-z1-gr-2019) and they show a cockerel which resembles a BCM but with some subtle barring on it (not sure that is quite right either). In any case, my chick has no barring whatsoever, which means if I DO have a cockerel, it definitely it NOT the mix they claimed. And I'm fairly certain I have a cockerel. Thus the questions: What is he? and Is she the same thing?

I'm happy that you think he does have BCM in him. I am hoping for that, as that is why I got them. I'm hoping to eventually start an OE project and the BCM genes would help with that. I had planned to pick up a purebred BCM rooster later, after I have more space. For now, I'm curious about other possibilities for this guy & gal, based on their appearance.

I am wondering if someone accidentally put a chick back in the wrong bin. I'm pretty new to chickens and am only familiar with a handful of breeds, so I could use some help pinning down the possibilities, though I do realize it will be easier to figure out as he gets older. I have a weakness for mysteries and, so far, this is a stumper. :confused:
 
Yeah, I've researched the mix as well. Not a lot of info out there, but it all seems to be consistent on what the cross is supposed to be. The store told me they came from Jenks Hatchery (https://jenks-hatchery-inc.myshopify.com/pages/egg-layers-z1-gr-2019) and they show a cockerel which resembles a BCM but with some subtle barring on it (not sure that is quite right either). In any case, my chick has no barring whatsoever, which means if I DO have a cockerel, it definitely it NOT the mix they claimed. And I'm fairly certain I have a cockerel. Thus the questions: What is he? and Is she the same thing?

I'm happy that you think he does have BCM in him. I am hoping for that, as that is why I got them. I'm hoping to eventually start an OE project and the BCM genes would help with that. I had planned to pick up a purebred BCM rooster later, after I have more space. For now, I'm curious about other possibilities for this guy & gal, based on their appearance.

I am wondering if someone accidentally put a chick back in the wrong bin. I'm pretty new to chickens and am only familiar with a handful of breeds, so I could use some help pinning down the possibilities, though I do realize it will be easier to figure out as he gets older. I have a weakness for mysteries and, so far, this is a stumper. :confused:

Well, all I can say is give it some time. As for the pic... that's about what I would expect from this cross, I think. But there *would* be a barring spot on the back of the head. And your chick would be barred already.

Give it some time and see was comes out with more feathers.
 
Well, all I can say is give it some time. As for the pic... that's about what I would expect from this cross, I think. But there *would* be a barring spot on the back of the head. And your chick would be barred already.

Give it some time and see was comes out with more feathers.

In other words, "Patience, Grasshopper." All right, I will try. Thanks for the input, though. You've at least confirmed that my instincts are correct. I do have a cockerel and he isn't what I was told he was. :barnie
 
I wonder if it’s genetic makeup is similar to sapphire gems (or blue sapphires) that are also from Czech Republic. They are Andalusian male and a Plymouth Barred Rock female sexlink. In raising them and following many threads with this new breed we found some males without the obvious yellow dot that slipped through. Maybe the dot wasn’t dark enough to see or a breeding oops but whatever the reason it still happened. Also noted with this breed was that the barring did not show up in the roosters until the adult feathers came in. What struck me as similar with your possible cockerel is that he has the yellow ring around his eyes. I have found this to be a distinct feature of the male sapphire gems and wondered if it was the same for this breed as well. That yellow ring seems to be connected to the barring gene and I would be interested in seeing if your guy will indeed have barring on his adult feathers. Just thought I would mention my observation.
 
I wonder if it’s genetic makeup is similar to sapphire gems (or blue sapphires) that are also from Czech Republic. They are Andalusian male and a Plymouth Barred Rock female sexlink. In raising them and following many threads with this new breed we found some males without the obvious yellow dot that slipped through. Maybe the dot wasn’t dark enough to see or a breeding oops but whatever the reason it still happened. Also noted with this breed was that the barring did not show up in the roosters until the adult feathers came in. What struck me as similar with your possible cockerel is that he has the yellow ring around his eyes. I have found this to be a distinct feature of the male sapphire gems and wondered if it was the same for this breed as well. That yellow ring seems to be connected to the barring gene and I would be interested in seeing if your guy will indeed have barring on his adult feathers. Just thought I would mention my observation.

I've read through a few Sapphire Gem threads and also noticed many similarities, enough to make me think the genetics are similar as well. I see a lot of the same sexing dilemmas with the Gems. Time will tell if Peppercorn gets any barring in his adult feathers or not. I will update here with any developments.
 
I've read through a few Sapphire Gem threads and also noticed many similarities, enough to make me think the genetics are similar as well. I see a lot of the same sexing dilemmas with the Gems. Time will tell if Peppercorn gets any barring in his adult feathers or not. I will update here with any developments.
I happen to have one of each and was hoping for both pullets! What did yours end up being?
 
I purchased two "Dominant Copper" chicks from a farm store back in April. Store said they got them from Jenks Hatchery. They are supposed to be a cross between a Black Copper Marans rooster and a Barred Rock hen. This cross should have resulted in sex linked chicks with the males having white dots on their head. Males should also be barred while the females would be black. I've confirmed that here in the genetics and breeding forums. (Thanks, everyone!)

This is what they looked like when I brought them home:
View attachment 1777907
The second chick was almost identical except it also has feathered legs. Neither had white dots on their heads. I believe they were about 3-5 days old when I got them, but that is an uneducated guess.

Here they are at about 3 weeks of age:
View attachment 1777909
The first chick, on the left, is the same chick as above, the second one, on the right, has the feathered legs, even though you can't see them here. Note the lack of a white dot on their heads. Also note that the second chick's comb is growing in much faster than the first's. This is where I started to question what I had been told.

Fast forward to today. Here is chick number one at about 5 1/2 weeks old now. Tiny comb, no dot, no bars. All as it should be, except that she has clean legs. Not sure if that is typical of Marans crosses or not, but I suspect it happens. In any case, I'm pretty sure she is a pullet:
View attachment 1777935 View attachment 1777936 View attachment 1777937

And now chick number two, also 5 1/2 weeks old. Still no bars, definitely feathered feet ... but look at that comb and those wattles. And those feet seem huge. Even with my lack of experience, this looks like a young cockerel to me. Even the way he stands and walks seems cockish the past couple of days:
View attachment 1777928View attachment 1777931 View attachment 1777934

Here are a couple of pictures of them together, for comparison. Pretty sure you can tell which is which:
View attachment 1777968
(Note: Middle bird below is one of my Colorpack Layer Easter Eggers. She is about a week older than the other two. Pretty sure she is a pullet.)
View attachment 1777971

So, first of all, do you agree that I have one pullet and one cockerel or is it still too early to tell? If so, then the boy at the very least is NOT the cross I thought I had purchased. In that case, any guesses as to what they might actually be? I'm hoping they at least have Black Copper Marans in them, but I am not at all sure of anything at this point. They are wonderful little birds and I can't say I mind that much that one is male (at least not yet, lol), but the mystery of the thing is driving me bonkers. :confused:

Any and all input is appreciated. I suspect I may have to wait for them to grow up more before I get my answers, if I ever do. But I thought it might be fun to try guessing now. I am pretty sure I'll learn something in the process.
Looks like the dominant coppers i got from Jenks. I recently got DC eggs to hatch as well. The ones with white could be males.
This is an older post. What ended up happening?
 

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