Mesh Buried Underneath Run

[IslandChickens12356]

Hello,

I have read some similar posts but didn't get any definitive answers.

I'm currently building a coop/run, and was considering putting the mesh ~1 foot down (with rocks above and below to help with drainage and prolong the life of the mesh) underneath the run (4 feet wide) as opposed to trenching around the entire run. Rather than cut the 4 foot hardware cloth down the middle to make a 1'x1' apron (down and out, L shaped), this would be about 1/4 of the material for what I think is the same amount of protection. Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks

 

[DobieLover]

Hello,

I have read some similar posts but didn't get any definitive answers.

I'm currently building a coop/run, and was considering putting the mesh ~1 foot down (with rocks above and below to help with drainage and prolong the life of the mesh) underneath the run (4 feet wide) as opposed to trenching around the entire run. Rather than cut the 4 foot hardware cloth down the middle to make a 1'x1' apron (down and out, L shaped), this would be about 1/4 of the material for what I think is the same amount of protection. Does anyone have any experience with this? Thanks

I would install an apron. They lay basically on top of the ground with the grass growing through it. This eliminates the chance for the chickens digging down to the mesh under the run and requires no digging.
My apron is about 2' wide. Nothing has ever dug in.

 

[IslandChickens12356]

I would install an apron. They lay basically on top of the ground with the grass growing through it. This eliminates the chance for the chickens digging down to the mesh under the run and requires no digging.
My apron is about 2' wide. Nothing has ever dug in.

Thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention that the mesh is 2"x4". I have 1/2"x1/2" mesh that I plan on using for the outside of the run, should I reinforce the bottom with the 2"x4"?

 

[DobieLover]

Thanks for the reply. I forgot to mention that the mesh is 2"x4". I have 1/2"x1/2" mesh that I plan on using for the outside of the run, should I reinforce the bottom with the 2"x4"?

I don't think that is necessary as long as the 1/2" hardware cloth is properly attached.
The 2x4 welded wire will keep digging predators out but mice may be able to dig in.

 

[IslandChickens12356]

I don't think that is necessary as long as the 1/2" hardware cloth is properly attached.
The 2x4 welded wire will keep digging predators out but mice may be able to dig in.

Everytime I reply I think of another detail to add; I have a pile of rocks that I can add to around the apron in the trench. I think the rocks should keep the mice out, they're fairly large and would extend down another ~6 inches. My thoughts are that this would improve general drainage around the coop and keep the wire out of contact with the soil (initial) to help prevent premature degradation.

Here's a (very bad) drawing if that helps

 

[jreardon1918]

The chickens can really dig deep holes. So putting HW cloth under the run seems like hard work.

We did an apron around the outside of the run. I am most concerned with critters getting in. We used 2' wide hardware cloth. It starts at the top of the run. So we cut 8' lengths. 6' covers from roof to ground. Then it was 6" under ground and 1.5' away from the coop. 3 1/2 years and this has kept the run secure. Fingers crossed. The apron is down 6" and out to roughly where the much is. This is an old picture now there is no evidence of where the apron is hidden.

 

[NatJ]

I have read some similar posts but didn't get any definitive answers.

That's because the true, definitive answer works out to "you can" and "it might work" and "it might not work because..."

I'm currently building a coop/run, and was considering putting the mesh ~1 foot down (with rocks above and below to help with drainage and prolong the life of the mesh) underneath the run (4 feet wide)

The most common concerns are about the mesh rusting, and about the chickens digging deep enough to encounter the mesh. It looks like you've addressed both of those.

Rather than cut the 4 foot hardware cloth down the middle to make a 1'x1' apron (down and out, L shaped), this would be about 1/4 of the material for what I think is the same amount of protection.

As long as the mesh is connected to the fence at all sides, I agree that you would have equal protection by having it underneath instead of laying on the ground outside. If the mesh rusts away, you will have no protection there until it is replaced. That is equally true no matter where the mesh is, but it is easier to check the mesh if it's on the surface.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

No personal experience, but I've read a lot of the discussions

I forgot to mention that the mesh is 2"x4". I have 1/2"x1/2" mesh that I plan on using for the outside of the run, should I reinforce the bottom with the 2"x4"?

2"x4" has thicker, stronger wires. It will last longer underground, and is much better against things like dogs on any part of the pen.

1/2"x1/2" has smaller holes, so it is better against mice, rats, and the paws of raccoons (they have been known to reach into pens and grab chickens, but not through holes that small.) It also keeps small chicks from walking out of a pen, and adult chickens from sticking their heads out.

Which one is "better" depends on what predators you are dealing with.

I think many people choose the apron on the ground outside because it uses less mesh to go around a large run than to cover the inside of the large run, and because they do not want to dig down deep enough to be sure the chickens will never scratch it up. And chickens can scratch holes quite deep (more than a foot, sometimes.) Of course, if you put a layer of rocks on top of the mesh, the chickens will eventually reach the rocks but not the mesh.

 

[IslandChickens12356]

That's because the true, definitive answer works out to "you can" and "it might work" and "it might not work because..."



The most common concerns are about the mesh rusting, and about the chickens digging deep enough to encounter the mesh. It looks like you've addressed both of those.



As long as the mesh is connected to the fence at all sides, I agree that you would have equal protection by having it underneath instead of laying on the ground outside. If the mesh rusts away, you will have no protection there until it is replaced. That is equally true no matter where the mesh is, but it is easier to check the mesh if it's on the surface.



No personal experience, but I've read a lot of the discussions



2"x4" has thicker, stronger wires. It will last longer underground, and is much better against things like dogs on any part of the pen.

1/2"x1/2" has smaller holes, so it is better against mice, rats, and the paws of raccoons (they have been known to reach into pens and grab chickens, but not through holes that small.) It also keeps small chicks from walking out of a pen, and adult chickens from sticking their heads out.

Which one is "better" depends on what predators you are dealing with.

I think many people choose the apron on the ground outside because it uses less mesh to go around a large run than to cover the inside of the large run, and because they do not want to dig down deep enough to be sure the chickens will never scratch it up. And chickens can scratch holes quite deep (more than a foot, sometimes.) Of course, if you put a layer of rocks on top of the mesh, the chickens will eventually reach the rocks but not the mesh.

Thanks for the incredible reply; I agree with everything you've addressed, and have one more question to add; if I want the best long term protection and ease of installation/maintenance, how do you think digging a trench around the run, filling it in with ~1' with rocks, and then laying a 2' wide 2"x4" mesh on the surface covered with more stones ~1"-2" (just enough to cover the mesh) would be?

The rocks would not be set in place, but I can't imagine them shifting around, and if a predator tries to dig in and is smart enough to go beyond the apron, I would be able to see that (I also can't imagine them doing all of that in one night, which would give me time to deter it further).

 

[NatJ]

What you suggest seems to make sense, but I really do not know what is the best protection.

I do know that wire rusts at different rates in different places (dry climate and/or sandy soil that does not hold water would prevent rust, wet climate with water-holding soil would rot fastest.)

My ideal chicken run starts with large stone pavers laid over the ground, then foot-high sides made of concrete blocks all around, then filled with dirt inside of that. Dig-proof, raised to help with drainage, no wire in contact with my usually-damp ground where it can rust. But I've never actually gotten around to building it, and probably never will (expense, hard work, etc.)

Clearly, plenty of folks do use wire with good results, and it tends to be cheaper and less heavy than stone, so those are good arguments in favor of using it.

 

[chknlittle17]

For my run, I made an apron that extends out 2ish feet on all sides. It is heavy gauge chicken wire with vinyl over the top. I am going to eventually put down something heavier duty, like cattle fencing. We have a stray dog problem here as well as a raccoon problem. The raccoons have yet to shred the chicken wire, even my dog could not shred it though he tried. Our soil is very hard packed, so I cannot even dig more than 4-5 inches deep.

The apron is attached about 12" up the side of the run between alternating layers of chicken wire and cattle fencing. Where I live, hardware cloth of good quality is impossible to get. We used what we could get at the time and so far haven't had issues. We have feral cats, so rodents are pretty well controlled. We also have electric fencing.