Monitoring Egg Shell Temp. not incubator temp. for better hatch results

[HiggsField]

Hi!

I've recently been reading quite a bit about commercial incubation methods and have been looking to see if its possible to bring them a Hova-Bator, Little Giant, or similar such device, even some of the more sophisticated incubators that some have built and shared on this forum.

Not wishing to teach folks here how to suck eggs - could not resist it! - it would seems that the best hatch results occur if the embryo temperature can be maintained at a constant 37.8 C (100 F) throughout the 21 day incubation period. At around day 15 the egg begins to generate its' own heat which has to be removed somehow. In commercial incubators they reduce the set point temperature as each day of incubation progresses.

In a Hova-Bator or similar such device the heat loss is quite large and they have to be maintained at quite a high temperature relative to the egg. Also the temperature tends to cycle quite a bit, nevertheless the egg will even out these quite large temperature fluctuations. What is not easy to determine is what is the real temperature of the embryo.

In my incubator I measure the egg shell temperature using a thermocouple taped to one of the eggs.



In fact I have moved to the sensor to the bottom of the egg and shielded it from the direct air contact with a small piece of foam. This setup works for me but it's rather expensive to implement, costing around $160.

I've done some searching around and found a very low cost USB temperature monitor that could be moded to do the same thing for under $50. I would be willing to write the necessary drivers and application software if there where was sufficient interest here for such a capability. The software would run on either a PC or android tablet. The egg shell temperature sensor would be connected via the USB port.

Let me know if you think this is something worthwhile to pursue!

 

[ThaJuicyJuice]

I am sure if this is interesting to you, there will be others out there that will get passionate about it, too. To me it's a bit overkill. Maybe because we are overcomplicating something that nature does so effortlessly. The hen doesn't even maintain constant temperatures. The amount of threads and comments on this forum from people who freak out because their incubator spiked to 101 or fell to 98 serves as a reminder that we are simply trying to mimic nature, and not create such rigid structure. Nature does have a pattern, but often it looks like chaos to the human eye. It may only be the our minds that are titillated by the refining of nature.

 

[542farmgirl]

This geekery is awesome. I am so excited that you are doing something like this. I don't have the means to use it just yet, but I guarantee that there are other people out there with the same hyper drive for accuracy and precision that would eat this up.. Keep it up!!

 

[ThaJuicyJuice]

Awesome response farm girl! ... I knew there would be a proper comment out there some where.

 

[HiggsField]

I am sure if this is interesting to you, there will be others out there that will get passionate about it, too. To me it's a bit overkill. Maybe because we are overcomplicating something that nature does so effortlessly. The hen doesn't even maintain constant temperatures. The amount of threads and comments on this forum from people who freak out because their incubator spiked to 101 or fell to 98 serves as a reminder that we are simply trying to mimic nature, and not create such rigid structure. Nature does have a pattern, but often it looks like chaos to the human eye. It may only be the our minds that are titillated by the refining of nature.

I was hoping that this would perhaps have a broader level of interest. I'm actually trying to make things less complicated. While most folks I'm sure measure the air temp in their incubators, as I did, it does not mean that this is the best way to do things. The problem with measuring air temperature is that you do not really know the relationship to the temperature of the eggs. Do you set the incubator temperature at 100F, 101F, 102F ?? What happens to the incubator temperature shoots up to 104 F or 105 F as it often did in my Bator? Did the egg get damaged?

From what I've read, too high an incubator temp during the last week when the embryo is developing its own heat then you will likely have a high mortality rate. For all I know a sitting hen knows this and gets off her eggs more frequently or perhaps ruffles her feathers to cool them during the last week Here some comments from industry professionals

"shell temperature is the important temperature, not incubator temperature" .. Metzer Farms

"highest hatchability and embryo development were always found when EST was maintained at 37.8 degrees C constantly throughout incubation.".. Poultry science

"Several studies have shown that the best chick quality is obtained when the eggshell temperature is maintained at 37.8°C (100°F) during incubation. Eggshell temperatures lower or higher than 37.8°C (100°F) during the first and third week of incubation result in a higher percentage of second grade chickens (up to 5% more) and smaller chickens (up to 5 mm smaller). We showed that eggshell temperatures of 38.9°C from day seven of incubation onwards, increased the incidence of ascites in later life."..worldpoulty.net

"Long term deviations of 1.1ºC away from a constant EST of 37.8ºC decreased embryonic growth, development, hatchability, and the ability of young chicks to maintain high body temperatures after hatching, especially under cold stress"...http://edepot.wur.nl/122079

I think measuring egg shell temperature provides a better way to get to know your incubator.

 

[EricMd01]

Nice thread HF! What is your air temp in comparison to your shell temp?

 

[plaidpantsuit]

I realize this thread is years old, but the setup described is exactly what I need! An infrared thermometer was the closest I could come. Is this setup still in the works somewhere?
It's my first hatch using an incubator (diy) rather than a hen, and I was puzzled at the lack of concern (and search results) for the actual shell temperature, rather than the ambient air.
Just because something has been done a certain way for many years does not guarantee it is the best way. Rather than the endless loops of worry about incubator settings, perhaps we can look around for a fresh solution to this old problem...

 

[yakitori]

We showed that eggshell temperatures of 38.9°C from day seven of incubation onwards, increased the incidence of ascites in later life.

I know spam brought up an old thread, lol...

But I just wanted to note that 1C deviation for an extended period is quite a *large* deviation, and should not be happening with any kind of incubation. Would love to see a study on mortality at smaller intervals...