Multiple roosters/small flock- what would you do?

[Momtymztu]

Hi again,

Our first little flock of 9 chickens is now 13 weeks
old and three of my pullets have grown into
roos. So we have one white EE cockerel (Olaf), 3 EE hens, 3 Blue Andalusian hens
and 2 buff orpington cockerels ( Janis & Phoebe- boy names as yet to be determined).

I am in a rural area so no reason we can't have roos, so at least that
is not an issue.

So far my EE roo is pretty good except he chases the
girls around a lot and pulls their feathers, particularly in the am. He is very alert
and will herd everybody back into the coop at the slightest
little disturbance. He and one of the BO's even take turns sitting in the door of the coop.
He never leads them though, he is last to do everything. He hates to be caught but once you get him he is still very easy to pick up and hold.

One of the 2 BOs still sticks with the hens and acts like
a hen, but a very brave one. The other I have seen try to
mount a hen and occasionally pulls feathers, but is more laid
back than the EE. The BOs are the first at everything, very brave
and seem pretty smart. They are both very easy to catch and handle still as well.

We let them free range under supervision for the
first time last week and the BO lead the group out, then the
EE chased one of the BOs all over the yard and away from
the flock, then happily went back to the group. I went over and picked
up the outcast roo and carried him back to the flock and there
was no more drama.

So... I was hoping to
get some opinions on what ya'll would do with this
situation. Should I ( A) wait and see how it all plays out
and hope no one gets too beat up (B) get rid of EE roo and hope 2 BO
roos can live together with current hens (C) get rid of 2 BO roos,
creating very unhappy children, and leaving EE roo alone with the girls or
(D) get more hens and hope the boys can play nicely???

I could eventually put together a second coop, but not right now.
Thanks!

 

[sourland]

Well, 3 roosters are 2 too many for your small flock. Your hens are on the smaller size, and the Buff Orpingtons will very likely become quite massive. This leads me to slightly favor the EE. If they were mine, I would separate the 3 cockerels from the hens and very closely watch their temperaments as they mature. The first bird to show human aggression would have to go - then the next and hopefully the remaining bird would be the most mellow. Good luck at working this out.

 

[Folly's place]

It's always fun to get more chicks!

If you really want a larger flock, and have the housing for them. Culling for human aggression is the first priority, IMO, both for safety and genetic issues. So far so good there? Sourland had a good idea about separate housing, although I have never done it that way. Your pullets will be run ragged by this group of randy boys, but it's early to say which will be the best. Mary

 

[microchick]

I'm dealing with the same problem. I started with 12 chicks. Original plan was for 2 roos and 10 hens. Mother nature had other plans, however and I wound up with two of my four Welsummers turning out to be roos and one Buff Orpington pullet turned into a mystery chick and then a handsome rooster.

They all co-existed peacefully until the hormones kicked in. I purchased 6 more hens to balance things out but I knew from the first crow that we had too many roosters even with the additional hens. Plus, the two Buff O boys who had been sexed as male and turned out to be boys had developed a nasty streak. They started abusing the two Welsummer cockerels.

When I say abused, I don't mean the usual chest bumping, hackle raising squabble, I mean cornering the object of their attention and trying to kill him. The Welsummers are very gentle roosters at this point in time. Good natured, non human aggressive, they never fought back with the two trouble makers. The Mystery chick, now a BIG Buff O boy, stayed out of the abuse of the Wellie boys. There had been some fighting between them early on but the mystery chick, now christened Big Red seemed to get along with the Welsummer roos once dominance had been established.

After witnessing one particularly brutal attack where the two Buff boys had one of the Welsummer boys pinned under an overhang in order to get away from them, I knew something had to be done about their reign of terror.

I wound up building a bachelor pen and pulled the two bad boys away from the flock. The change was immediate and amazing. The two Welsummer roosters stopped being neurotic messes and started coming out of the coop. The Alpha Rooster, Big Red, is tolerating their presence and even letting them mate with the hens as long as the hens submit to them. If they don't, he flies into action and rescues the hen from their attentions. The hens are more relaxed and seem to really like the three remaining roosters.

The two outlaws are residing in their bachelor pen. They hate it. But I am starting to accept the fact that they are not going to change and that I am going to have to find a new home for them at some point as I do not want to have this aggressive trait passed on to another generation.

As long as the remaining Buff and two Wellie boys continue to get along and govern the flock as a trio, they can stay as they are but I'm not ignoring the fact that one of the Wellies or even Big Red might possibly change temperaments at any given moment. They are roosters and that is what roosters are known to do.

So the point is, while your boys are co-existing peacefully now, do not expect it to last, not with that number of roosters to hen ratio. Watch them carefully and be prepared to have to intervene to keep somebody from getting injured or killed and yes, be prepared to have to remove some of your roosters. Watch for the rooster that is gentle, non aggressive, protective of his hens and tolerant of your presence in and around the coop. And watch the hens, especially your alpha hen and notice which one she prefers.

Good luck. You are in for some interesting days ahead.

 

[Mrs. K]

The first thing is that when you have this set up, you need to prepare for the wreck. You need a place that you can separate birds. Roosters can get along, but they can also go for the fight until someone is bloody or dead. It might not happen, but there are good odds that it will, and you need an ability to get them apart. So you need to have it already set up.

With three roosters, generally speaking, there is one who is out, you don't want him for what ever reason. Cull him, and wait, and eventually there will be one that you like better. If you have a way to separate the roosters as the above poster suggests, I would do that now. That will give the pullets time to grow up, when they are laying is the time you can add the rooster back about 5 months. It will also give the roosters more time to develop, and you can pick who you really want.

If you can't separate the roosters from the flock, I would recommend that you cull all three roosters for these reasons:

* Roosters are a crap shoot, this forum is full of posts of where the darling turned into a nightmare in an instant with no warning, there probably was warnings, but inexperienced people often times don't recognise them.

* Roosters raised with flock mates become bigger and sexually active long before their same age pullets do, young roosters are intensly interested in sex and will breed and bully the pullets nearly constantly, with three roosters, the girls will be run ragged. Tension in the flock will be high.

* You have young children, when roosters are bigger than anything else in the flock, and grow up that way, they get very cocky and aggressive. Children are most often attacked first. Depending on the age of your children, that can be at eye level. It is not uncommon for a rooster to be able to knock a young child down. Roosters have ruined the whole chicken experience for a lot of people.

*You have years to enjoy this hobby, start smaller, then add to it. Roosters are cheap, you can always get a rooster. If you get a rooster from someone else, chances are the reason he has lived so long, is that he is nice.

Generally, even very experienced people in poultry, have had a rooster they just wish they could make nicer. Most agree it is not real successful. In my opinion, if you are going to have a rooster, the first thing you need is a sharp knife and the realization that it might not work out.

In your set up, a young first time flock and too many roosters for the number of hens, the current set up is very probable to have some nasty problems. More than likely you are going to have to cull some. It would be better to do it before the problem. Fighting birds can be scary to inexperienced people.... Heck they can be scary to experienced people, two madly flapping, flogging, spuring animals can be hard to reach in and grab.

Mrs K

 

[Momtymztu]

Thanks so much for all the advice so far... Definitely a lot to consider.
I do have a temporary pen in the garage where I can separate anyone who gets
beat up or sick, but I am on the lookout for something more suitable for
a hospital/quarantine cage and maybe now a bachelor coop.

Microchick- you at least give me a little hope that the boys can
work it out. How old are the roos/ hens in your flock and how many
hens do you currently have with the three boys?

Folly's place - no, absolutely no human aggression so far. I have already
warned the kids that it will not be tolerated and there will not be a second
chance where that is concerned no matter how much they
like that particular roo. I posted a few weeks ago about sharp
nails and it was actually the hens that were the issue then... They are currently
much pushier than any of the cockerels. The two BOs are very sweet and very friendly. The EE is more standoffish and seems more fearful around people, although he has been handled
daily along with everyone else.

Sourland- segregating the boys may be an option in a few weeks
but not right away. Any idea at what point the BOs should start to
mature and gain some size? Right now the EE is a lot bigger than they are,
so much so that my hubby teases me about the big meat chicken
in the run. They are all the same age. One of the BOs is actually my smallest
bird in the flock at the moment. Don't know if it makes a difference, but they were
TSC chicks, so probably not the greatest breeding.

Mrs K- thanks for the warning as to how nasty things could get. My human boys are almost 8 years old and have been handling the chicks since the day we got them. I am watchful for any inappropriate behavior towards them though. Although
this is my first experience owning chickens, I did deal with them in our barnyard
exhibit when I was zookeeper. We probably had 10 or more roosters and very
few hens, I never was sure why the numbers were like that... I guess roos are prettier???
Anyway, we got attacked routinely by whichever rooster turned into a jerk next. Most of those jerky roosters turned into python food. I definitely do not relish dealing with violent fighting, but after the zoo, it takes a lot to scare me off where animals are concerned and I am not ready to
cull anyone just yet. Separation is a possibility.

If I add hens, how many would ya'll recommend? I am thinking I'll try
to get some BO hens, since all of my first batch turned into boys. Any other brown
egg layer I should look into?

 

[drumstick diva]

Black Australorps are actually in the Orpington group, brown egg layers and very good ones at that. They are said to be docile. They may be a good addition for you.

Generally a rooster can handle 10 hens, so you would need 30 if you keep all three roos. A lot of folks have been going roo-less even when allowed to have them because the hens are less stressed. If there is no desire for fertile hatching eggs, they just skip the rooster part. For the moment, the BO's seem like your best candidates.

 

[microchick]

We currently have 13 hens (I call them my baker's dozen) and three roosters in my main pen. 5 hens are 19 weeks old this past Saturday. 6 range from around 10 weeks to 14 weeks. The three roosters are 19 weeks as are the two bachelors that I pulled from the pen. I still don't have a good ratio of hens to roos but at the moment it is working. It is in the rooster's ball park. As long as they can stay peaceable and the hens don't show wear and tear they can stay the Three Musketeers but if things change for the worse I will have to pull another male from the mix.

I'm an advocate of having extra roos for your flock for the flocks sake, at least two, an alpha and beta bird. When I was younger and had birds I remember that three roos worked out well with the flock so that's what I'm shooting for. If one of my Buffs goes broody (got to get those girls laying for goodness sake) I will keep the hens and part with the roo chicks.

I would definitely add more hens if you plan to keep one or two cockerels in your flock. The ration is 12 hens per roo although I have read that the ratio can be as low as 3 to 1. But as I said, much depends on your roosters. Mine were handled a lot when they were chicks. I also used the 'carry the bad roo around' method when they stepped out of line. You are going to have to become a very good observer. Watch them for over the top aggression to other roosters that includes cornering and ganging up on another roo. That is unacceptable behavior. My roos did peck at me for awhile. It was dealt with swiftly with the bird getting pinned to the ground and then carried. The three remaining roosters haven't pecked me in ages but I try not to give them a chance to either. They will eat treats out of my hand. Bread makes them come running and stand almost on my toes so they are gazing up at me with 'PLEEEEAAAASE!' written all over their faces. Even then, the hens get the treats first and the roosters second. They stay at a respectful distance the rest of the time. Every now and the the Alpha Buff Orpington will flap his wings at me if I am working in the coop as if telling me I have been in the pen long enough, time to finish up and leave, but no aggression towards me or the other roosters.

Pulling the two bad boys from the pen was hard on me. I love roosters with their cocky personalities and macho attitudes, but I'm glad I did it now. If some thing happens to the Alpha the two Welsummers are there to fill his shoes. Be prepared to pull birds that do not show what you find to be acceptable behavior, even if as in my case, it is one of your favorite birds as you do not want to pass on aggressive genes to future generations.

The most important thing you want to do is protect yourself and any children that might interact with the birds. Let good sense prevail. Don't turn your backs on your roosters. Too many people write about 'my rooster just attacked me from behind' not to take it seriously. Keep their presence out of the corner of your eye, do not accept aggressive behavior and be ready to pull if it does.

I always tell my husband (this is his first chicken experience) to respect the hens, they after all, basically having a baby 5 out of 7 days a week once they start laying, and don't trust the roosters. I know, there are exceptions to the rule and there are a lot of good friendly roosters out there but to me they are all stallions with feathers. Unpredictable and potentially dangerous and I respond to them with that attitude. At the moment, our three boys are being 'good boys' but the thought that their behavior can go sour even now is always in the back of my mind.

Good luck with your boys. I started a thread about how to choose which roosters to pull and got some good responses about what to look for. I was told the same thing you are being advised to do. Be prepared for things to go south before they turn around and go north again. Your roosters have a lot of maturing to do as do mine and a lot can change as they do.

 

[Momtymztu]

If I choose to separate the roos from the hens
for now, how far away do they need to be to reduce
fighting amongst themselves? I might be able to create
a small "bachelor pad" to give the girls a break, but setting
it up completely out if sight of the girls is not practical
on my property right now.

Also, would it be a bad idea to allow the roos to
free range during the day on there own and then
put them up and let out the hens when I'm around to
supervise and ward off predators? The roos would still be able
to see the hens and wander around near the coop but they
couldn't pick at the hens until they mature a little, might cause
more aggression between the roos though???

And... If I add hens, should I try to get them about the
same age, younger or older? Mine are just over 13 weeks now.