Only two hens left, bully behavior, what would you do?

[Stephine]

Hi again, now taking our conversation to this thread. I really think your coop is to blame (other than just having bad luck with this flock‘s temperament. But the eggloo coops are way too small. There is no space to get away from each other there. Chickens remove themselves from the space of a dominant hen to show they submit and understand the pecking order. If they can’t get away, the issue stays unresolved in the eyes of the dominant hen. A smaller flock needs proportionately more space in a coop than a larger flock.
Also the ventilation in an Eggloo is completely inadequate. For 4 hens you want a total of 4sqft of ventilation at the top of the coop walls. You need the coop to be tall enough that the air exchange happens well above the chickens heads to avoid drafts chilling them. None of that is possible in the eggloo. Finally, there are no roosts. Chickens love roosts.
All this to say a real coop will go a long way to make your next flock more peaceful and happy. One more thing - I would put some 2x4 or 1x4 roosts higher up in the run, wide side up, so they can get comfy up there, as another way to allow for some separation.
Along with adding some clutter.
Then I really don’t see how you would have trouble again.

 

[Birdinhand]

Balancing the pecking order is a rarified art. The thread about aggression and roosters was interesting with a remarkable number suggesting all roosters can be “rehabilitated”, but what if hens? This thread here brings up the larger issue of alpha balance even with no rooster. I tend to think it’s a wild card whether you’re talking about alpha hens or roosters. In my experience, and I’ve been around chickens on and off for over 50 years, when the alpha hen or rooster is taken out of the equation, it can cause a dramatic upset in the pecking order ecosystem, as the new alpha is established. Finding a solution can get real complicated real fast, if the new alpha is too heavy handed. A peaceful coop can turn very dramatic overnight in this case, and sometimes dramatic intervention is required. It’s important to be realistic about how much time, energy and heart ache you are willing to go through. Sometimes adding hens to a rooster-less coop, with an over zealous hen can do wonders if one of them can rise to become a benevolent dictator. A firm and solid couple of dust ups can flip the switch on a ruthless alpha and “put her in her place”. If it’s not too brutle, doesn’t lead to harm and the new order is peaceful, it can spare a lot of suffering in the long run. In your situation, if you’ve already tried everything, I’d consider rehoming both and starting over in March or so. Sending those hens off to a larger flock with a rooster or a strong alpha hen could very well bring out completely different personality traits in your troubling hen, so it’s not like you are passing on your problem to someone else. You will need to give the new owner free will to make possibly some tough choices going forward as they see fit if things don’t balance out well. Often with chickens, personality traits as basically reflexive, different types of personalities are brought out by various circumstances, making a super mean hen in one scenario, docile and submissive in another setting. I’d consider starting over in maybe March with a group of chicks that grow up together, it’s my experience that this is the most likely path to a peaceful flock. I’d also try and assure your coop has adequate open spaces, eliminating tight turns and corners that would be easy to get cornered into, Keep food out in the middle of an open space, giving plenty of reaction time and space to reduce damaging confrontations. if a problem arises again with a new flock create two sources for food and two sources for water, at opposite ends of the coop out of line of site of one another if possible. More square feet is often very helpful, maybe 3x the minimum. I tend to think a good minimum flock number of just hens is about 5-6, any less and incompatable personality types become exaggerated.

Otherwise, starting to add new hens to the two remaining could easily be more headache and expense than it’s worth. It might work, it might be horrible. Chickens see red like it’s technicolor and will peck at it reflexively, it doesn’t take much pecking before a brutal frenzy turns into severe damage, sometimes even death. I highly recommend reading the behavioral biology of chickens if you are at all fascinated by a deep dive on this sort of thing.

 

[thecatumbrella]

A smaller flock needs proportionately more space in a coop than a larger flock.

I love this concept, and it's kind of been my mantra when designing run space. Meeting the minimums for personal space does not leave much room for furnishings and accessories.

There is no space to get away from each other there.

I agree that a real coop would have given a safe area to just get out of sight for a bit. It might have made the difference, but it's too late now. The town forced our hand (long story), so we had to abandon our build plans and went for the Omlet over a cheap prefab. It did perform surprisingly well in moderate weather, but we had to make so many modifications (including adding our own roosts, improving airflow, and placing it in a weather-resistant enclosure) that it's not something I'd recommend to really anyone. Like you said, the ventilation or eventual crowding will come back to bite you. No one's integrating pullets or having a broody in that thing!

BUT, silver lining is that our new setup is going to be much more substantial. A build last spring would have been woefully inadequate. Thanks so much for your input. I have some of your notes bookmarked going forward.

 

[thecatumbrella]

Balancing the pecking order is a rarified art. The thread about aggression and roosters was interesting with a remarkable number suggesting all roosters can be “rehabilitated”, but what if hens? This thread here brings up the larger issue of alpha balance even with no rooster. I tend to think it’s a wild card whether you’re talking about alpha hens or roosters. In my experience, and I’ve been around chickens on and off for over 50 years, when the alpha hen or rooster is taken out of the equation, it can cause a dramatic upset in the pecking order ecosystem, as the new alpha is established. Finding a solution can get real complicated real fast, if the new alpha is too heavy handed. A peaceful coop can turn very dramatic overnight in this case, and sometimes dramatic intervention is required. It’s important to be realistic about how much time, energy and heart ache you are willing to go through. Sometimes adding hens to a rooster-less coop, with an over zealous hen can do wonders if one of them can rise to become a benevolent dictator. A firm and solid couple of dust ups can flip the switch on a ruthless alpha and “put her in her place”. If it’s not too brutle, doesn’t lead to harm and the new order is peaceful, it can spare a lot of suffering in the long run. In your situation, if you’ve already tried everything, I’d consider rehoming both and starting over in March or so. Sending those hens off to a larger flock with a rooster or a strong alpha hen could very well bring out completely different personality traits in your troubling hen, so it’s not like you are passing on your problem to someone else. You will need to give the new owner free will to make possibly some tough choices going forward as they see fit if things don’t balance out well. Often with chickens, personality traits as basically reflexive, different types of personalities are brought out by various circumstances, making a super mean hen in one scenario, docile and submissive in another setting. I’d consider starting over in maybe March with a group of chicks that grow up together, it’s my experience that this is the most likely path to a peaceful flock. I’d also try and assure your coop has adequate open spaces, eliminating tight turns and corners that would be easy to get cornered into, Keep food out in the middle of an open space, giving plenty of reaction time and space to reduce damaging confrontations. if a problem arises again with a new flock create two sources for food and two sources for water, at opposite ends of the coop out of line of site of one another if possible. More square feet is often very helpful, maybe 3x the minimum. I tend to think a good minimum flock number of just hens is about 5-6, any less and incompatable personality types become exaggerated.

Otherwise, starting to add new hens to the two remaining could easily be more headache and expense than it’s worth. It might work, it might be horrible. Chickens see red like it’s technicolor and will peck at it reflexively, it doesn’t take much pecking before a brutal frenzy turns into severe damage, sometimes even death. I highly recommend reading the behavioral biology of chickens if you are at all fascinated by a deep dive on this sort of thing.

I loved reading this! You should seriously consider writing a book on everything you've observed over the years. Chicken society is endlessly fascinating. How can something be so simple yet so complicated?

We did end up starting over (or we will in May). I'm going to follow up in a couple weeks to see how the Australorps are doing at the farm, and I fully expect that they've settle into their new flock dynamics and cooled their jets. I don't think this breed is intended to be at the reins in a party of 3. I didn't even know what the pecking order was between them until the eggs hit the fan!

We're shooting for a double covered run totaling 360 sqft, with lots of feeding stations, points of interest, and areas to escape to. We also ordered 8 individual "breeds" (3 are different colors of Opington) in the hopes of retaining at least 5-6. But you know how it is... if I ordered 6, 2-3 would be roosters or fail to thrive. Ordering 8 means I'll get 8 full-blown hens!

I really want to check out that book, but I'll have to hunt it down. Thank you so much for sharing.

 

[Stephine]

I love this concept, and it's kind of been my mantra when designing run space. Meeting the minimums for personal space does not leave much room for furnishings and accessories.



I agree that a real coop would have given a safe area to just get out of sight for a bit. It might have made the difference, but it's too late now. The town forced our hand (long story), so we had to abandon our build plans and went for the Omlet over a cheap prefab. It did perform surprisingly well in moderate weather, but we had to make so many modifications (including adding our own roosts, improving airflow, and placing it in a weather-resistant enclosure) that it's not something I'd recommend to really anyone. Like you said, the ventilation or eventual crowding will come back to bite you. No one's integrating pullets or having a broody in that thing!

BUT, silver lining is that our new setup is going to be much more substantial. A build last spring would have been woefully inadequate. Thanks so much for your input. I have some of your notes bookmarked going forward.

Rooting for you! Please give us an update on how it’s going with your new flock in a few months. Keeping fingers crossed!