Organic method for treating chicken mite infestation that works

[scratch'n'peck]

Of course it is, but thats very different than the egg being made of "synthetic chemicals" - which spinosad is.

I think most of the organic movement is a whole bunch of silly based on the naturalism fallacy.

I am sure there are some who won't consider Spinosad "natural" enough. My major reasons for being interested in Spinosad is that it is a newer class of pesticide, so it means that there is less chance of pests being resistant (at least for a few more years until they develop resistance to this) and there are studies that show that it is effective and relatively safe.

Certainly not all of those products that I referenced above are organic, but the Mother Earth article seemed to draw a distinction between permethrines that are synthesized forms of a natural chemical and "organic" Spinosad. To clarify it in my mind, I checked Wikipedia:

"Spinosad is a novel mode-of-action insecticide derived from a family of natural products obtained by fermentation of S. spinosa. Spinosyns occur in over 20 natural forms, and over 200 synthetic forms (spinosoids) have been produced in the lab.[4] Spinosad contains a mix of two spinosoids, spinosyn A, the major component, and spinosyn D (the minor component), in an approximately 17:3 ratio.[1]"


So it does sound like the products that are considered organic are produced through fermentation, but a lot of the others are synthetic. I do like that I can at least suggest an 'Organic Approved" option for poor infested chickens who have only been dusted with DE.

 

[scratch'n'peck]

@Judy when I searched for Spinosad on BYC you were one of the few people who mentioned it as an option. I just thought I would ask if you had anything to add to the discussion on this thread. Also, if you suggest spinosad on the forum in the future, feel free to link to the information on this thread.

 

[scratch'n'peck]

@Chris King When I searched this forum for Spinosad, you gave some of the most helpful information on the topic here as a veterinarian. I am trying to make information on Spinosad easier to find on the forum, so if you have anything to add to this thread about your experience, please feel free to do so.

For others reading, check out this link to Dr. Kings three posts about Spinosad: https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/807747/mites-ive-tried-everything/50#post_11713745

BTW, I'm glad I reread your posts. I didn't notice before that you mentioned Spinosad is NOT stable after sitting mixed with water for a while. I guess I will throw away those extra couple of ounces that I mixed with water.

 

[French chook]

We gave our dog COMFORTIS to combat a flea infestation that was resistant to frontline, it has worked really well.

 

[coop410silkies]

Scratch'n'peck, I just now finished reading your thread - and some of Mr. King's replies elsewhere. Great, great stuff, all of it. I just wrote a reply to your post on SIMZS' thread, and I think it addresses some of your issues. Now that I know what you are looking for, I will elaborate here.

I HAVE administered Spinosid orally to young chickens. The product I used is Conserve SC, 11.6% Spinosid in propyleneglycol; it's a thick suspension that needs to be thoroughly shook before diluting to proper dosage, and it smells horrible. I purchased it from Amazon, available only in industry sized quarts, which I thought pricey. (In the long run, however, this is a VERY concentrated product and will make many applications.). I used it to kill any fleas my young birds might have acquired from my dogs, and I fed it in doses recommended for dogs weighing the combined weights of my month old babies. I pulled the dosage chart off from one of the net sites for Comfortis (can't remember which right now). As I said in my post, I would have no qualms about using this product orally for chicken mites, but since my chicks didn't have mites, I can't personally assess how effective a MITICIDE it is. Others on your thread have been successful applying it as a spray, and I am delighted to learn that.

About the ORGANIC issue: Spinosid is the by-product of fermentation BY a soil bacteria, not the actual fermented bacteria itself. I think. Wikipedia was a little not too clear about this. Probably most of the stuff on the market is synthetically manufactured, which leads one to wonder just exactly how organic can it possibly be. Like permethrin, right? And ORGANIC may apply just to the labeled intended uses for a particular product, not necessarily for what and how YOU wish to use it. Mr. King says that one might contaminate or taint the meat or eggs merely by spraying the critters with Spinosid, so to be on the safe side it's better to toss the eggs and wait to butcher. What I'm suggesting is worse. I am recommending feeding chickens a once per month dose, so that the insecticide is systemic and lethal to mites which feed on them for the next 28 or 30 days. This will SURELY taint the meat and eggs. So, if your infestation is serious enough, if you don't like repeatedly spraying your coop and chickens as much as I do, if you want a great cure rate - orally administer the Spinosid in the winter, when laying is at a minimum and feed the tainted eggs back to the chickens. I would never sell eggs with traces of Spinosid; it may be harmless, but it's possible it could affect the flavor in a negative way. The non-toxic Spinosid I use has a very penetrating and strong odor and flavor, and it's conceivable to me that it could be tasted in the meat and eggs.

I didnt say it on my previous post, but I think I DID use the Conserve SC topically - in a bath and as a spray - for the box turtle with serious mites, the one that had a miraculous cure. Could have been the BZK, could have been the Spinosid. It is nice to have options. Like you, S&P, I wonder why Spinosid isn't better known to chicken lovers everywhere. Thank you for raising its conscious level where it needs to be risen. Hope this helps kindle the rising. Yours in Berthoud.

 

[scratch'n'peck]

@coop410silkies Thanks for sharing your experience. It is really interesting that your first experience with Spinosad was with the orally administered Comfortis for dogs and cats, so your first inclination would to be using it orally for chickens. But considering that I was looking to get rid of roost mites in the coop and on the chickens, my first inclination was to use in topically as a spray. Considering that you fed it to you chicks and they were okay and flea free, I am even more comfortable with the safety of this active ingredient. As you say we need to read up on the other ingredients in the product to make sure they are safe as well.

I looked up the Conserve SC, and it is pricey, but it sure is concentrated. I hope it is shelf stable for many years to come. For anyone who wants to spend less to try a product with Spinosad they can look up Captain Jack's concentrate which happens to be for organic gardening: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VJBYMC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I got several applications to spray down the coop and chickens with this product and still have some left over.

Elector PSP is the agricultural industry's spray with Spinodad (synthetic form I think) and its label says there is not a withdrawal time for eggs I think. But we are talking about topical application in that case.

I would have concerns about using any product that could develop resistance too frequently just for prevention, whether it is a pesticide or an antibiotic. After all permethrin products used to be more effective before mites developed a resistance to them.

I bet it was the Spinosad product that really helped get rid of the mites on your turtle.

I think Spinosad is not better known because people don't necessarily look at the active ingredient on the product and the products go by so many names.

 

[coop410silkies]

@coop410silkies
 Thanks for sharing your experience.  It is really interesting that your first experience with Spinosad was with the orally administered Comfortis for dogs and cats, so your first inclination would to be using it orally for chickens.  But considering that I was looking to get rid of roost mites in the coop and on the chickens, my first inclination was to use in topically as a spray.  Considering that you fed it to you chicks and they were okay and flea free, I am even more comfortable with the safety of this active ingredient.  As you say we need to read up on the other ingredients in the product to make sure they are safe as well.  

I looked up the Conserve SC, and it is pricey, but it sure is concentrated. I hope it is shelf stable for many years to come.  For anyone who wants to spend less to try a product with Spinosad they can look up Captain Jack's concentrate which happens to be for organic gardening: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001VJBYMC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  I got several applications to spray down the coop  and chickens with this product and still have some left over.

Elector PSP is the agricultural industry's spray with Spinodad (synthetic form I think)  and its label says there is not a withdrawal time for eggs I think.  But we are talking about topical application in that case.  

I would have concerns about using any product that could develop resistance too frequently just for prevention, whether it is a pesticide or an antibiotic.  After all [COLOR=333333]permethrin products used to be more effective before mites developed a resistance to them.  [/COLOR]

I bet it was the Spinosad product that really helped get rid of the mites on your turtle.  

I think Spinosad is not better known because people don't necessarily look at the active ingredient on the product and the products go by so many names.  

. Agreed and appreciated. Many thanks for the benefit of your researches and thoughtfulness. Yours in Berthoud

 

[battagliac]

No it wasn't in one of the links above. When I was searching a variety of sites on Red Mite, I came across this idea. I'm sorry I don't remember the exact site. I think it was some European Association of Poultry Producers, because the technique was said to be used in the Netherlands, I think. It didn't really go into any detail, but I remembered it because it was such a simple idea that could be helpful. I have not tried it yet, but I should look around for some spare PVC pipe. I know we have some laying around.

Thanks to you and others for all these posts!! My wife and I just discovered our 14 chickens are heavily infested with poultry mites. We've had chickens for about 3 years or so now and are constantly learning. We found the mites on us first--just one once in awhile--but I'm a biologist, so I identified the mites and then checked the coop at night and found them all over the roosts and the chickens feet. Wiping the mites on the roost with my finger produced blood so obviously they are feeding away on our poor chickens. I recently started using Spinosad on our fruit trees, so I'm glad to hear it's approved for chickens. We feed or chickens organic layer feed and they are free ranging all day for bugs and veggies, so we do try to be as natural as possible.

We also read that feeding them small amounts of garlic, cayenne pepper, and apple vinegar solution deters mites and other parasites. Sounds worth trying... Any thoughts on this? Here is the link I read it at: http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-benefits-of-garlic-cayenne-and.html The website also has instructions for giving them a wood ash bath and providing them with wood ash to use as needed: http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/2012/12/natural-way-to-rid-chickens-of-lice.html Finally I've heard the diatomaceous earth can be helpful.

 

[scratch'n'peck]

Thanks to you and others for all these posts!! My wife and I just discovered our 14 chickens are heavily infested with poultry mites. We've had chickens for about 3 years or so now and are constantly learning. We found the mites on us first--just one once in awhile--but I'm a biologist, so I identified the mites and then checked the coop at night and found them all over the roosts and the chickens feet. Wiping the mites on the roost with my finger produced blood so obviously they are feeding away on our poor chickens. I recently started using Spinosad on our fruit trees, so I'm glad to hear it's approved for chickens. We feed or chickens organic layer feed and they are free ranging all day for bugs and veggies, so we do try to be as natural as possible.

We also read that feeding them small amounts of garlic, cayenne pepper, and apple vinegar solution deters mites and other parasites. Sounds worth trying... Any thoughts on this? Here is the link I read it at: http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-benefits-of-garlic-cayenne-and.html The website also has instructions for giving them a wood ash bath and providing them with wood ash to use as needed: http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.com/2012/12/natural-way-to-rid-chickens-of-lice.html Finally I've heard the diatomaceous earth can be helpful.

As far as the methods you mentioned, Spinosad is the best bet for treating an infestation. It may need to be used at a greater concentration of active ingredient than is typically used in gardening to be effective. The other methods might help with prevention, but I can't say there is scientific evidence to support their how well they prevent infestation. Garlic, some say, can make the eggs taste funny. Diatomaceous Earth (DE) is mentioned a lot in the forums, and it can be fine in a dust bath along with wood ash or powdered sulfur, but I wouldn't use such powders in a confined area like the coop to any great extent, because I wouldn't want the chickens breathing in a lot of the dust. I hope you can get rid of those nasty mites soon.