Please advise =( 3 wk old quail struggling to walk. Can i help? Prognosis?

[lauradrake21]

Please help! Our Little Steve always had issues walking but seems to have gotten worse.

He has always been a 'runt' technically, but has seen himself through the first three weeks. I suppose we have become attached to him/her as the underdog. Ours are as pets for eggs and I could not watch him struggle in the egg when he had started to hatch so well by himself. But now i worry there will be an element of suffering? I know if they pip and even carve and dont get out they arent meant to survive but i knew as well our humidity was very low during hatching.

He showed himself to be a real trooper though and at about 11 days he reached a peak of mobility but his legs always seemed a bit weak and he has always been the smallest. He could at least seem to run about, though not like the others. He had the same tenacity though, and ate and drank like the other 6.

Now at 3 weeks he seems to have lost a lot of his mobility - he can still move to food and water but seems to struggle to go forwards and ends up shifting about in place, or plonked back on his bum and sits around a lot more than the others, and also gets trodden on as he tends to sit where he lands. When i was changing them, they were temporarily on the slippery plastic bottom of the brooder and while the others could walk, his legs would splay and not hold him up though it hasn't appeared like he has ever had truly splayed legs when he was littler.

Little Steve at 10 days:


Little Steve at 16 days:


Is it too late to try to tape his legs up to get him up on his legs? Is their muscle strength lacking as his body grows? He is growing and surviving day by day by himself so he must be getting to food and water, and the others seem to tolerate him (no pecking etc) so would he be 'sad' about his condition, or are they too dumb to ponder their situation?

Basically, i know he was not meant to get out the egg, so please don't comment about him being a waste of food and a great dog snack. Who i would like to hear from are others who've raised similar birds who know what kind of bird he could be, what life he could look forward to, if there is suffering, and if these birds can go on to be 'OK' as they are... AND if there is anything I can do to help him?

I feel sad that he really wasnt meant to survive but i wanted to give him a chance. A prognosis, similar experiences and advice on what he is feeling and what i should do would be very welcome.
Thanks so much guys,
Laura

 

[TwoCrows]

Unfortunately those that you help out of the egg many times don't make it. The hatching process is natures way weeding out the weaker ones. In nature, these weaker ones wouldn't get out of the egg and hence not survive.

But when you help them out, it doesn't make their weakness go away. And in this case, your little one may or may not survive. Since you don't know what is wrong with her, it is difficult to diagnose and treat these types.

The best thing for weak birds is supplements and vitamins. Many times weakness stems from malnutrition for what ever reason. So you might use probiotics, poultry supplements, and keep her warmer than the others. You might remove her and keep her about 5 degrees warmer than the others. Heat can do wonders for weak birds. Runts are slower to grow and need more intense heat than the faster growing birds and get cold really easily. Don't lower the heat with her like you did with the others. I would keep her at about 90 degrees for the next few weeks.

These are about the only suggestions I can think of. I don't think this can be treated medically. Keep her warm and lots of supplements and probiotics and of course lots of TLC.

Good luck and I sure hope she makes it!

 

[lauradrake21]

When i separate him/her, he/she calls to the others loudly and sounds so forlorn though =( Thank you for your advice and kind words though. If i cant separate without him being distressed, i would rather leave him with his litter mates. They seem to sit next to him and he snuggles up (though never appears to be cold and his body and feathers are coming through like the others, though he looks a bit more dishevelled). I just want to do something to get him standing and walking better and get some strength into his legs. I know i went against nature but just couldnt help it. Vitamin supplements sound good, i will look into that. Thanks for the suggestion. Maybe one day he will slip away or always just be a perfectly fine bird shuffling around. I just dont want him to be in pain.

Thanks again for all your help =) Everyone on here is so caring and knowledgeable, so willing to share help, advice and support. I dont think i will go through this again though as I'm too soft, i know. =)

 

[dc3085]

You arent doing it any favors trying to spare it 'lonliness'. The others will keep weak birds from getting as much feed/water/heat as they need. They do not have compassion for weak specimen. Their instinct is to let weak birds die or if they are injured/sick enough theyll kill the weak bird themselves. They dont have a family mentality, thats a human thing that gets ascribed to pack animals. Their concern is the safety/survival of the flock as a whole not the survival of any specific member.

 

[lauradrake21]

Hey thanks for your reply. They don't seem to stop it drinking at all and with regard to food it looks like he chooses to pick at the floor around the feeder though I had noticed when he was feeding at the feeder the others would start to feed at the same spot and it would end up knocking him out the way. They also don't stop him getting to the warmth. There is no aggression towards him they even seem to pick bits off him gently. I know they are purely instinct with no compassion but there is also no sense of wanting him dead.. maybe they don't care either way. I just wondered what I should do to help him get as strong as the rest. Is it too late to get a band round his legs to help it stand... he is growing every day and back feathers coming through well so he must still be feeding and I see him drink often too it's just hard as I'm out at work all day and it's hard to know what he's done all day and how much he is feeding...

 

[lauradrake21]

Time to cull? He's eating and drinking but can't stand, Has thin strip of plaster to stop the splay which helps, but he only shuffles and can not move forwards very well but he can and does get to food on the ground and to the water trough. When he was smaller he could run around but now it's as if his weight is too much for his legs. We hold him up and he can stand but then he seems to tip forward and sit down, like his legs are too far back or he has no balance or just not enough muscle strength. He seems fine in himself otherwise. he is not getting weaker and still growing and feathering out, eating and drinking and is still accepted by his pals. plus he seems really tame and sits with us quite calmly, He calls to the others a bit when separated but i do need to separate him so he can get the therapy to learn to walk and stand with the hobble on.

Can his legs get stronger?
He is 22 days old.

What are the signs that we should cull (signs of suffering), and how is best to do that?

 

[cmobley]

Best way to cull. Sharp scissors from behind at the base of the skull snip its done best to throw bird off to the side in grass they do alot of flopping and all. Good luck i would cull soon as possible she looks miserable in that second pic.

 

[313759]

Time to cull? He's eating and drinking but can't stand, Has thin strip of plaster to stop the splay which helps, but he only shuffles and can not move forwards very well but he can and does get to food on the ground and to the water trough.  When he was smaller he could run around but now it's as if his weight is too much for his legs. We hold him up and he can stand but then he seems to tip forward and sit down, like his legs are too far back or he has no balance or just not enough muscle strength. He seems fine in himself otherwise.  he is not getting weaker and still growing and feathering out, eating and drinking and is still accepted by his pals. plus he seems really tame and sits with us quite calmly, He calls to the others a bit when separated but i do need to separate him so he can get the therapy to learn to walk and stand with the hobble on.


Can his legs get stronger? 
He is 22 days old. 

What are the signs that we should cull (signs of suffering), and how is best to do that?

I had the same issue with a gosling I had. He could scoot around to get to food and water but couldn't really stand. He was later killed by a stray cat that lingers about the neighborhood that I know and hate for doing so. I had tried to tape his legs but no progress. I would cull him, for his weak legs he is just suffering and is miserable. No doubt he is probably trampled by the others and beaten up and pushed around a lot. He is suffering it would be best to let him out of his misery.

 

[GeneP]

I had a Coturnix youngster in the brooder that sat a lot. One if its legs would not straighten out. It would shuffle over to the water, then shuffle over to the food, spending the day with it's head in the feeder. As it grew older, both knee joints swelled up. I left her in the brooder when her litter mates graduated, and the next batch of week-olds moved in. When it came time for Freezer Camp, she was only half the weight of her litter mates and did not have any sign of maturity in her reproductive organs. My experiment showed me that it is best to cull early. The situation does not improve.

 

[lauradrake21]

No doubt he is probably trampled by the others and beaten up and pushed around a lot. He is suffering it would be best to let him out of his misery.