Questions-a-Plenty

[PrintedPerfect]

Hi there,
I am new to chicken raising and to this forum. Would introduce myself as a noob, as I have seen on other forums, but to be honest I don't know what that means - guess that could be question #1, but it's not something I lose sleep over.

When I was a kid I had one pet bantie, and also a domestic white duck (different times). I no longer have much memory of their care or anything else, other than the chicken meeting an early demise via a opossum. This is ALL of my experience, so here goes....

Based on what I was told by the hardware store guy, I needed 3-4 square foot per chicken. I ordered a chicken coop (made that link clickable if you want to see it). It measures 64.2" x 42.5", which is (I think) about 12.5 square foot, getting me in that area. Only thing is that from reading many helpful articles on this site, I really need more like 10 square foot per chicken for free space. It's a little late now, as I just spent $200 on a coop and currently have four baby chicks shacked up in a dog cage in the corner of my dining area. I also have a baby duck in a box on top of that cage (they seriously dislike each other, even though the hardware guy said they'd be the best of chums).

To understand my questions, here is some additional info... My neighbors have about ten of what they refer to as "wild chickens" (one rooster) that cruise their and my property. They do not collect these eggs and their chickens roost up in the trees or somewhere - no coop or containment. They also have probably 6 cats roaming free, though the cats do not seem to bother the wild chickens.

My plan is to assemble the new coop in front of this monstrosity of a dog pen to help hide it from view and to keep it out of the area of the property that we actually live. That pen is actually encroaching on my property about 10', so I can go as far back as necessary.



The first questions I have are.... If I put my little chickens (Dominque) into the new coop/pen and leave them in there in the beginning, when they're small enough that they have enough space, can I let them roam free during the day and reasonably expect them to come home to the coop at night? You know, keep them locked in there at first so they "get it" that this is where they roost, or are they going to pile up in the trees and become wild like the neighbors chickens?

Is it likely that the neighbor's cats will leave my chickens alone like they leave the neighbor chickens alone or are the wild chickens just mean by nature? Am wondering if my chickens will be able to flap their wings and sqwauk to make the cats (or dogs or whatever) leave them be.

If I have to create a confinement to keep them safe, can I just run chicken wire around some trees in the area or is that not enough? Does their confinement area require a frame or cemented posts or a top?


Any help and/or advice is very much appreciated. I had a zillion more questions but they have escaped me at the moment.

Thank you so very much!

Jeanne

 

[Ridgerunner]

You’re asking some interesting questions and presenting an interesting scenario.

You’ll hear a lot of different recommendations for how much space chicken need, anything from 2 square feet to 4 square feet to 10 to 14 each. There is a pretty good reason for that. They are talking about different things. We manage them differently in different climates and conditions with different flock makeups. If you want my thoughts on space follow the link in my signature. I think you are going to be tight but you might be OK. Using that coop and run as a nighttime safe haven but building a run for daytime use may be your best bet.

If those other chickens were not there, what you are talking about would work well. If the chicks learn where their coop is, they would normally go back there at night. But chickens are flock animals. Your chickens will be absorbed into the existing flock. If you get them used to sleeping in your coop, they may continue to do that but they may also learn to sleep in the trees with those other chickens. Growing up we had some chickens that slept in the coop and some that slept in trees. I don’t know what yours will do. Yours may lay in your coop but there is a pretty good chance they will lay where the others are laying.

Cats are a danger to young chicks but they seldom harm adult chickens. Cats are basically cowards and generally won’t tackle anything near their own size. Yours should be fine with cats once they reach close to adult size. You are dealing with living animals so no one can give you any guarantees but I would not worry about the cats.

Chickens cannot stand up to any real predator. They may be able to bluff cats but they really don’t have a chance against a determined dog, fox or really anything else. You saw what happened with that possum. There only real chance is to escape, often by flying into a tree or someplace high. Since those other chickens are doing OK it may mean your predator pressure isn’t really high. Most dogs can be trained to not harm chickens, but that is most, not all, and you have to train them.

A reasonable size dog, raccoon, or coyote can rip chicken wire apart. Different people on here have posted photos of that. Many predators like possums, bobcats, raccoons, and foxes can climb a fence. Some things like coyotes or foxes can jump really high. Chicken wire can keep chickens in but it really doesn’t keep many things out.

I use a philosophy of having a predator resistant run for the day and a predator proof coop at night. About any predator I’ve mentioned can come out during the day but most are more active at night. They normally have more undisturbed time to search for a way in at night.

I built my run out of 2 x 4” welded wire. That will keep about any reasonable sized predator out. They can still climb over, but climbing predators aren’t a huge risk during daytime. But if you give them any possible way in, your chickens are always at risk. To keep every possible thing out will take a lot of money. You need to balance how much you are willing to spend versus how much risk you can accept.

Good luck and welcome to the adventure.

 

[PrintedPerfect]

Golden Feather, your article is one of them that I read! I almost quoted you about "shoe horning" them in there LOL.

You answered my questions, the big one being if they'll run off and join the circus of wild chickens. Thank you so much!!! I would be so seriously unhappy if these creatures took off after all the time and expense! So with that I am thinking I need to put up a bigger run, assuming them need it. That way they'll have the space they need and be safe, or as safe as possible.

So, do you think the overall size of this coop being 64" x 42" may actually be enough where they are not miserable and stay healthy?



This evening as I thought more and more on this, I began kind of thinking about figuring a way to put wire up to create a big run for them with a compost pile on one end. I read about using chickens for compost piles on this site somewhere. I need to study up on that quite a bit, but perhaps that is an option. After Googling the welded wire and finding T-posts, I think that may be an easy way to extend the coop. I suppose a top would be smart for the chicken hawks and other critters that appreciate a good chicken dinner, but like you said, most will be out at night. I agree that there really is no certainty when it comes to keeping them 100% safe. I have a hunting dog myself, even though I am teaching her to keep her lips off, she is even a risk.

One question on all of this though, if I extend the run using this wire and add a compost pile, do you think the trees in the area will be enough to hide the compost pile from the bird that they talk about (the one that can leave a larvae that will make the chickens sick)?

 

[lazy gardener]

Hawks prey on chickens during the day. Owls prey on chickens at night, and have been known to even enter a coop for a chicken snack. Regarding a wild bird and larvae that can make a chicken sick, I'm assuming that you're talking about parasitic worms? Chickens eat every insect they can get their little beaks on, and some of those insects/bugs/grubs/worms are vectors for parasitic worms. The balance here is to allow your chickens to be chickens. Some people give worm medication as a routine precaution. Then they have to throw away a lot of eggs before the medication gets out of the chicken's system. Other keepers use more natural methods that may or may not work. Other keepers (count me as one of them) assume that parasites happen, and unless there is evidence of them, do not treat their flocks. A healthy chicken will do ok with a reasonable parasite load. If you notice production going down, or birds not looking well, it's time to investigate, and deal with the issue.

The compost pile in the run is an excellent idea. You could do a fenced run, put bird netting over the top, and have a reasonably safe area for them during the day. It would not be predator proof, but would discourage predators. To keep them safe at night, you'd need to shut them in the coop. If you're in snow country, you might want to put some sort of roof over at least part of your run so the girls can get out in the winter. You might want to do some reading on the pests and predators site to see what you need to take into consideration when planning your housing. Especially look at the weasel.

Jeanne, I love the breed of chicken you've chosen. Also, if your single duck is a boy, you may run into problems with him trying to breed your chickens, which can kill them. You might want to get your duck a buddy. And, IMO, your current coop is a bit too small for the chickens, plus a duck. Ducks are a LOT of fun, but they are also very messy, have different water needs, and if you provide water in the coop, they'll make a wet mess out of the bedding which will be unhealthy for the chickens. Some ducks do very well with a little dog house for shelter. Then they could share the run.

Though cats don't normally bother chickens... some do. My cats loved to chase my chickens last summer, even when they (chickens) were 4 months old. The hunter instinct is just too strong to ignore flapping wings and squeaky noises... and if it runs and flaps, the chase is on. I had a 17# cat who would routinely bring home full grown rabbits, and once took down a fox when I was a kid. A chicken would have just been an appetizer for that boy!

Have fun with your little flock.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don’t know which bird or larva you are talking about, Coccidiosis or some other parasite. Whatever it is, hiding your coop and run won’t help. Birds roost and nest in trees.

You have to remember that there can be a huge difference in what might possibly occasionally happen versus what will 100% happen each and every time without fail. A lot of people on this forum go to a lot of trouble to protect against something that isn’t likely to happen or if it does isn’t hard to deal with. Yes, chickens can get a disease that wipes out a flock. It doesn’t happen often but it happens. They may pick up a parasite that if untreated can kill them. So learn what the symptoms are and treat it if you need to.

I don’t raise my chicks in a sanitary cocoon. I purposely expose them at a very young age to the environment they will be living in, taking dirt from the run and feeding that to them the second day they are in the brooder. I want them to start working on flock immunities and strengthening their immune system. While they are in the brooder I can watch them better and handle whatever shows up better than when they are on the ground. They are more ready when they hit the ground. I think I wind up with a healthier flock this way. Others follow a different philosophy. There is a lot of personal preference in a lot of this stuff.

 

[PrintedPerfect]

While looking up the welded wire for a pen I saw the netting that you are talking about. I think that would work perfectly! I want to keep them as safe as reasonably possible and also let them be chickens, so I think I will try that. Their coop came today so I am going to go out and assemble it in a few minutes.

I am giving up on the plan to keep the duck in with the chickens because they have not quite hit it off. Initially they were just super standoffish but last night I tried to reintroduce them and we had quite the ruckus. They were all clearly curious about each other, but one of the chickens really bowed up (kind of fluffed her feathers out) and pecked at the duck. Once I took the duck out of the cage that one chicken then started flapping her wings and pecking at the other three chickens. She ran them all over the cage for a few minutes - she was really being quite the bully. I hope I don't have a big meanie in the group. So I guess I will need to make other arrangements for the duck, perhaps a dog house like suggested. I thought about using a diaper and letting it live in the house, but not sure how exactly that works, especially if it's a female. How do they lay their eggs if they are wearing a diaper? And of course, when my daughter shed her diaper 1-1/2 years ago I swore I wouldn't be changing diapers again! LOL I don't know much about ducks and chickens, but the issue could be because the duck has imprinted on us (humans) and maybe throws off some kind of vibe or something, or maybe the chickens see the duck out and about free and playing with us. I'm not sure how many brain cells or what kind of deep thought processes they are capable of!

I need to also do more research on the compost pile, so I know how to get it started and exactly what to do. I am confused if the whole pen should be filled with compost or just one corner. And if it's in a corner and they kick it around is that a big deal? Since that area is dirt and I will need to put chips or hay down, when I rake it out can I rake that right into the compost pile? So many questions, but it's very exciting too!

Also, I think I am going to begin introducing them to the coop once I get it built. We're having nice days (in the 60's-70's), so that will let them become slowly exposed to the elements while they're still spending most of their time in the house being watched.