Raising your own

[Scooby308]

Greetings all:

I am going to be starting up my chicken end of the homestead in the next month. I have been planning this for years and actually going to give it a go.

I have decided on Barred Rocks as my primary bird of choice. Dual purpose, good layers, and docile (generally) are the factors that lead me to choose them. I have also read that they rarely go broody. That is not really good for me as I hope to be able to breed and raise my own. I have looked at Buff Orps as being my brood mistresses. Is this a sound plan or am I over thinking?

My mom has told me that her grandparents would stick duck eggs under a broody hen to hatch them. She said the hen would hatch them out fine. She also told me the hen would trip out when the ducklings would jump in the creek. Can you use chickens to hatch out ducks, quail, etc.? Just curious on that.

Thanks,
Christopher

 

[Time-Out]

A hen will hatch out anything she can sit on. Some hens might freak out or crush little ones, though. I guess it depends on personality. Don't rule out barred rocks for broodiness until you know your hens. I hear of lots of people with broodies amongst breeds that oughtn't be. Would just be your luck to hatch bared rocks and orps and end up with a broody army

 

[Fred's Hens]

Greetings all:

I am going to be starting up my chicken end of the homestead in the next month. I have been planning this for years and actually going to give it a go.

I have decided on Barred Rocks as my primary bird of choice. Dual purpose, good layers, and docile (generally) are the factors that lead me to choose them. I have also read that they rarely go broody. That is not really good for me as I hope to be able to breed and raise my own. I have looked at Buff Orps as being my brood mistresses. Is this a sound plan or am I over thinking?

My mom has told me that her grandparents would stick duck eggs under a broody hen to hatch them. She said the hen would hatch them out fine. She also told me the hen would trip out when the ducklings would jump in the creek. Can you use chickens to hatch out ducks, quail, etc.? Just curious on that.

Thanks,
Christopher

Your choice of Barred Rocks is a good one for a homestead. The decision you'll have to make with BR is the same decision you'd have to make with any of the large, traditional breeds, called the Americans. The Rhode Island Red, Buckeyes, the Barred Rocks, the White Rocks, etc.

If you buy your chicks from a hatchery, what you say is true and will be true of most breeds. If you buy your chicks from a handful of traditional, preservation minded keepers and breeders of Barred Rocks, you'll get an entirely different bird. Some call these Heritage strains, although that term has been abused a bit.

For most a century, there has been a fork in the road. Modern hatcheries have mass produced chickens. Broodiness has virtually been bred out of the lines, as hatcheries are in the business of making and selling as many birds as they can, at a profit. There has been little attention to remaining faithful to tight breed standards. The hatchery bird of today lays far more eggs than its ancestors did 100 years ago. They grow out twice as fast, tend to be much smaller, thus yielding less meat, don't tend to live as long and have lost much of their historic coloration, body shape, foraging ability, and aspects of their unique personalities.

The preservation minded breeders and keepers of lines that date back 100 years, still produce the birds, true to their heritage, that your great grandparents raised. The differences are truly stunning. There are a few Heritage threads here on BYC. The Heritage Buckeye thread, the Heritage Rhode Island Red thread, the Heritage Large Fowl thread, the Good Shepherd Poultry thread. The photos are stunning!!! The true bred, heritage bird is truly a different bird, as 75 generations have passed and now? The differences between a typical hatchery bird and a preservation, heritage fowl is truly night and day.

It was through reading these threads for the past year or two that helped me better understand. Both strains have their place. I have hatchery, commercial stock. But I also have some heritage Barred Rocks, bred faithfully for 100 years. They will indeed go broody. They are so different from my hatchery BR that it is almost unfair to call them the same breed.

 

[flewdacoop]

cool post

 

[MoonAngel12]

Great history and explanation Fred! Really has me thinking about the route I want to take with my chickens...

Oh, and for what it's worth, I have had one of my Black Sex Links go broody on me more than once. You just never know!

 

[A.T. Hagan]

Greetings all:

I am going to be starting up my chicken end of the homestead in the next month. I have been planning this for years and actually going to give it a go.

I have decided on Barred Rocks as my primary bird of choice. Dual purpose, good layers, and docile (generally) are the factors that lead me to choose them. I have also read that t[COLOR=B22222]hey rarely go broody[/COLOR]. That is not really good for me as I hope to be able to breed and raise my own. I have looked at Buff Orps as being my brood mistresses. Is this a sound plan or am I over thinking?

My mom has told me that her grandparents would stick duck eggs under a broody hen to hatch them. She said the hen would hatch them out fine. She also told me the hen would trip out when the ducklings would jump in the creek. Can you use chickens to hatch out ducks, quail, etc.? Just curious on that.

Thanks,
Christopher

Your choice of Barred Rocks is a good one for a homestead. The decision you'll have to make with BR is the same decision you'd have to make with any of the large, traditional breeds, called the Americans. The Rhode Island Red, Buckeyes, the Barred Rocks, the White Rocks, etc.

If you buy your chicks from a hatchery, what you say is true and will be true of most breeds. If you buy your chicks from a handful of traditional, preservation minded keepers and breeders of Barred Rocks, you'll get an entirely different bird. Some call these Heritage strains, although that term has been abused a bit.

For most a century, there has been a fork in the road. Modern hatcheries have mass produced chickens. Broodiness has virtually been bred out of the lines, as hatcheries are in the business of making and selling as many birds as they can, at a profit. There has been little attention to remaining faithful to tight breed standards. The hatchery bird of today lays far more eggs than its ancestors did 100 years ago. They grow out twice as fast, tend to be much smaller, thus yielding less meat, don't tend to live as long and have lost much of their historic coloration, body shape, foraging ability, and aspects of their unique personalities.

The preservation minded breeders and keepers of lines that date back 100 years, still produce the birds, true to their heritage, that your great grandparents raised. The differences are truly stunning. There are a few Heritage threads here on BYC. The Heritage Buckeye thread, the Heritage Rhode Island Red thread, the Heritage Large Fowl thread, the Good Shepherd Poultry thread. The photos are stunning!!! The true bred, heritage bird is truly a different bird, as 75 generations have passed and now? The differences between a typical hatchery bird and a preservation, heritage fowl is truly night and day.

It was through reading these threads for the past year or two that helped me better understand. Both strains have their place. I have hatchery, commercial stock. But I also have some heritage Barred Rocks, bred faithfully for 100 years. They will indeed go broody. They are so different from my hatchery BR that it is almost unfair to call them the same breed.

This is the folklore that has gradually developed over the decades, but I do not think it is entirely true.

A hundred years ago (or even more) there was the beginnings of a divergence between the so-called "heritage breeders" and the commercial breeders. Back then there were no commercial sex-links as we have them today. The five major American breeds/varieties of Barred and White Plymouth Rocks, Rhode Island Reds, New Hampshires, and later Delawares were the industrial, working birds of their day. Along with the White Leghorn they were pretty much the entirety of the American poultry industry.

As we learned how to breed birds to achieve desirable ends, how to feed them, and how to manage them a rift began to open up between those folks who were primarily interested in their birds cosmetic qualities and those who had to make their living with them. Broodiness to the extent that it could be was bred out of those breeds/varieties because broody hens do not lay eggs and thus do not make money. They were not needed or wanted to produce chicks because it could be done more economically and productively through artificial incubation. Broody hens are a chancy business, particularly when you need chicks by the hundreds rather than the dozens.

The same with egg production, size, shell quality, and all of that. The broiler industry as we know it today largely did not exist a century ago. Chicken meat was mostly a byproduct of the egg industry. It was the laying hen that one made money with and the surplus cockerels and spent hens mostly paid for themselves with only a little left over for profit. Not very different from what we have right now in fact for those types of birds. Thus a Barred Rock that could lay 250+ eggs in her pullet year would make you money. A bird that only laid 200 eggs a year would run you broke. The industry inevitably began to adapt their breeding to produce birds that would keep them in business since even back then we were caught in the morass of "chronic overproduction" so that only the most efficient operations would be able to stay in business. The folks who could not produce eggs and/or chicken meat as cheaply as their competitors went bust. Again, just as it still is today.

So the folks who wanted their birds to have a particular shade of color, sharpness of barring, number of points on a comb, size/weight regardless of how long or how much feed it took to achieve, became increasingly irrelevant. They were not trying to make their living with those birds (and almost entirely still are not today) so did not have to worry about trivial things like feed conversion, rate of gain, production rate, egg size and shell quality. Unimportant to them, but vital to the farmers who had to make enough of a profit to stay in business. The show bird hobby and the poultry industry parted company and the twain is unlikely ever to meet again.

Which brings us to the modern day and those five breeds/varieties of birds: The Rhode Island Red, White and Barred Plymouth Rocks, New Hampshires, and Delawares. They are not the foundation of the American (or pretty much anyone else's) poultry industry any more and have not been for decades. The broiler chicken is no longer a byproduct of the egg industry. In fact the cockerels and spent hens of the layer industry are now just a liability since no one wants them and egg production has gone over pretty much entirely to various kinds of sex-links and White Leghorns, who are themselves usually a strain-hybrid now. The show bird hobby continues apace slowly evolving their birds to whatever the desires of the fancy happens to be at the time still oblivious to their respective birds practical qualities. The commercial hatcheries are now in the business of selling the birds themselves so no longer need to focus quite so much on the practical qualities that once made those breeds the foundation of the American poultry industry, but they do not entirely ignore them. If you are unlikely to get the quality of bird one could have gotten from a commercial breeder in say, 1925, they will still generally be decent layers of good quality eggs and generally not show a lot of broodiness relative to their cousins in the breeds/varieties that were never of any economic significance and those who were only ever bred for cosmetic reasons.

In a nutshell I think the OPs plan is a good one. Not all Buff Orpingtons will go broody. They're sort of hit or miss that way. But I can say that my most reliable broodies are Buffs. But broodiness can happen in any breed/variety. Right now my fiercest (and I mean willing to fight for those eggs!) is a Rhode Island Red. Earlier this year I had both a commercial ISA Brown red sex-link and a commercial White Leghorn go broody at the same time. Pretty unusual that, but it can happen. Get your birds, manage them well, feed them right then late Nature take its course. You are likely to get what you want.

 

[cmom]

I have had hens or pullets in my breeds of choice go broody at times. I have RIR, Buff Orpington, Single Comb and Rose Comb RIW and RSL breeds. I had read that certain breeds tend not to go broody which to a great extent is true but there is always one in the group that will eventually go broody. Some broodies are more dedicated than others. I had a BO recently but she was not very serious. I put her in her own nest box in a cage and she would get the eggs out of the nest box and scatter then around and sit on maybe 1 or 2 eggs. I would put the eggs back into the nest box and she would get the eggs back out and scatter them around. I took the eggs away and put her back in with the rest of her flock. I haven't found her sitting in a nest box since. I have a very broody RIW that recently hatched out chicks. Nothing was going to keep her out of the nest box.

 

[Fred's Hens]

This is the folklore that has gradually developed over the decades, but I do not think it is entirely true.
A hundred years ago (or even more) there was the beginnings of a divergence between the so-called "heritage breeders" and the commercial breeders. Back then there were no commercial sex-links as we have them today. The five major American breeds/varieties of Barred and White Plymouth Rocks, Rhode Island Reds, New Hampshires, and later Delawares were the industrial, working birds of their day. Along with the White Leghorn they were pretty much the entirety of the American poultry industry.
As we learned how to breed birds to achieve desirable ends, how to feed them, and how to manage them a rift began to open up between those folks who were primarily interested in their birds cosmetic qualities and those who had to make their living with them. Broodiness to the extent that it could be was bred out of those breeds/varieties because broody hens do not lay eggs and thus do not make money. They were not needed or wanted to produce chicks because it could be done more economically and productively through artificial incubation. Broody hens are a chancy business, particularly when you need chicks by the hundreds rather than the dozens.
The same with egg production, size, shell quality, and all of that. The broiler industry as we know it today largely did not exist a century ago. Chicken meat was mostly a byproduct of the egg industry. It was the laying hen that one made money with and the surplus cockerels and spent hens mostly paid for themselves with only a little left over for profit. Not very different from what we have right now in fact for those types of birds. Thus a Barred Rock that could lay 250+ eggs in her pullet year would make you money. A bird that only laid 200 eggs a year would run you broke. The industry inevitably began to adapt their breeding to produce birds that would keep them in business since even back then we were caught in the morass of "chronic overproduction" so that only the most efficient operations would be able to stay in business. The folks who could not produce eggs and/or chicken meat as cheaply as their competitors went bust. Again, just as it still is today.
So the folks who wanted their birds to have a particular shade of color, sharpness of barring, number of points on a comb, size/weight regardless of how long or how much feed it took to achieve, became increasingly irrelevant. They were not trying to make their living with those birds (and almost entirely still are not today) so did not have to worry about trivial things like feed conversion, rate of gain, production rate, egg size and shell quality. Unimportant to them, but vital to the farmers who had to make enough of a profit to stay in business. The show bird hobby and the poultry industry parted company and the twain is unlikely ever to meet again.
Which brings us to the modern day and those five breeds/varieties of birds: The Rhode Island Red, White and Barred Plymouth Rocks, New Hampshires, and Delawares. They are not the foundation of the American (or pretty much anyone else's) poultry industry any more and have not been for decades. The broiler chicken is no longer a byproduct of the egg industry. In fact the cockerels and spent hens of the layer industry are now just a liability since no one wants them and egg production has gone over pretty much entirely to various kinds of sex-links and White Leghorns, who are themselves usually a strain-hybrid now. The show bird hobby continues apace slowly evolving their birds to whatever the desires of the fancy happens to be at the time still oblivious to their respective birds practical qualities. The commercial hatcheries are now in the business of selling the birds themselves so no longer need to focus quite so much on the practical qualities that once made those breeds the foundation of the American poultry industry, but they do not entirely ignore them. If you are unlikely to get the quality of bird one could have gotten from a commercial breeder in say, 1925, they will still generally be decent layers of good quality eggs and generally not show a lot of broodiness relative to their cousins in the breeds/varieties that were never of any economic significance and those who were only ever bred for cosmetic reasons.
In a nutshell I think the OPs plan is a good one. Not all Buff Orpingtons will go broody. They're sort of hit or miss that way. But I can say that my most reliable broodies are Buffs. But broodiness can happen in any breed/variety. Right now my fiercest (and I mean willing to fight for those eggs!) is a Rhode Island Red. Earlier this year I had both a commercial ISA Brown red sex-link and a commercial White Leghorn go broody at the same time. Pretty unusual that, but it can happen. Get your birds, manage them well, feed them right then late Nature take its course. You are likely to get what you want.

Well said, my friend. Very well put.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Having a few known broody hens or an incubator is pretty much a must, if you want to do as the title of your thread suggests.

A little story. My brother is big time into his homestead and the older ways. He first ordered Speckled Sussex. 50 straight run. Ate the cockerels, of course, and waited for his 20 remaining hens to brood. Only two or three did so, and they hatched out 20-30 chicks, but only a dozen pullets. Through natural deaths, predation, etc, after three years, his flock was not sustaining itself at a pace that would keep up with his needs, as he has a large family. Winter laying was abysmal. Months without eggs, really. He switched to Australorps. After a few years, his results were somewhat similar. Failure to actually keep up with his needs. Reproduction was not adequate and egg laying, while much better with the 'Lorps, was still not up to his expectations.

I took him a half dozen of my commercial hybrids, as his wife was really, really longing for eggs. Those 6, year old hens impressed the socks off her, in their egg production and my brother was amazed at their feed conversion. Both of those traits are precisely what those commercial hens were bred for. Will they go broody? Highly, highly unlikely.

Once you define your needs for meat birds, eggs and throw in the broody or reproduction equation, there are a number of ways to skin that cat. Plus, one has to factor in economics. Be flexible. Try different approaches. Keep different birds, from differing sources and see what you can make work. That is half the fun.

 

[cmom]

That was a great little story. My brother did sort of the same thing with other breeds. Their flock kept getting smaller and smaller. They eventually sold their farm and livestock, except they kept their horses and they keep them at a stable for their grandchildren.