Rat poison

BonDEEroo

Songster
Jun 18, 2017
163
206
167
Australia
A1D07152-C005-4C6F-83E2-92F61DCA32F3.jpeg

I recently had to put out poison to deal with an infestation of rats. I find they are too smart to trap - one gets caught and the others never go near the trap again. I placed 3 wax block baits totally out of reach of the chickens (or so I thought), but on Tuesday night last week I found and removed a bit of wax block in the corner of the chookhouse, where it must have been brought by rats. Careful searches revealed no more bait remnants.

I had at least one suspected poisoning - a Silkie whose 2 talents are eating things she shouldn’t, and being a great mother. The photo shows her trying to interest her chicks in some old straw. The morning after I removed the bait, I saw her scratching around hopefully in the corner where I found it the night before. I couldn’t tell if anyone else had eaten some.

Unfortunately a trip to the vet was not affordable right away - 47 birds and chicks - so I decided to try an antidote to the poison and observing the flock, taking any obviously sick birds in for treatment after a few days, if I could afford it.

I read online and on the packet that the antidote for brodifacoum is vitamin K1 - so that morning I placed an urgent order for a bottle of pills from an online vet product supplier, and all the flock had a meal of silver beet and dandelion leaves (high in K1) mushed up in the food processor with some cream cheese and yogurt (fat or oil is supposed to make K1 quicker to assimilate). Once they got over the shock of being offered bright green paste to eat, they couldn’t get enough of it.

No vet would sell me vitamin K1 without seeing the bird and no pharmacist without a prescription from a doctor. I had some old multivitamins with K1 so they went into the mix.

Over the next few days every bird seemed OK apart from the Silkie, who was doing black poo (I assumed because of bleeding in her digestive system) and had a pale vent - it’s hard to detect pallor on black-skinned birds, but her vent was more grey-blue-purple in color than the other 2 Silkies. Everyone else was pooping normally and showed no signs of pallor.

The pills came on Thursday last week - 10mg phytomenadione. They were chewable tablets meant for dogs and cats, the dosage being 1 tablet daily per 4-40kg body weight. I tried a quarter of a tablet daily for the Silkie and gave the rest of the flock silver beet leaves (they loved them).

The next few days were pretty anxious. The Silkie has been eating like royalty - a quarter tablet daily, in 2 doses, crushed up and added to bits of meat or cream cheese. She’s very low in the pecking order so she gets carried into the house twice a day for her “medicine”. It was leftover roast duck for a couple of days. The duck carcass went out to the chicken yard once it was too old for us to eat. After the feeding frenzy, all that was left was the backbone, picked clean. It was hilarious watching chicks balancing on the carcass, pecking away as it jerked about from the other birds pecking it.

It’s been 10 days now, dead rats turning up (straight into the garbage bin) but no sick or dead chickens. The Silkie’s poop is still dark but not black anymore. All the birds have normal appetite and behavior.

I will maintain the vitamin K1 for the next 2-3 weeks because brodifacoum has a long half-life, and see how they all go, but I hope they are all out of danger now. No dead rats have been seen for a couple of days.

If I have prevented any deaths, it was a matter of sheer good luck that I found the piece of wax block. Next time I must use proper bait stations that can only be accessed by rats or mice.

Does anyone know if vitamin K1 can harm chickens? Do they eliminate it if eaten in excess?
 
At the dose you're giving, no. If you fed 300 tablets, maybe you'd cause to develop blood clots or something. If she's improving now you can start reducing the k1. Natural sources are even better such as kale, parsley, beet greens, mustard greens , Swiss chard, spinach and watercress.
 
glad you were able to help them!!

i was actually just talking with a group of people about VitK, and rat poison and found some interesting reading

this is copied from the conversation:


the most common rat/mouse poison works by making the animal bleed to death internally
Bromadiolone (click for info) it's a anti-coagulative and can kill very quickly (less than 1 day if enough is ingested)

Vitamin K is essential in the body to break down certain proteins needed for coagulation and also aids in bone/calcium absorption

the amount of Vitamin K needed really depends on what strength poison is used and how much was ingested

:oops:

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/818130-clinical#showall

SUB Q INJECTION<
Usual Dose and Administration
Dose depends on type of poison pet ingested. The first (loading) dose is usually 1.15 to 2.25 mg/pound given by injection subcutaneously (SQ) divided between several sites. Then, an oral amount of up to 2.5 mg/pound daily divided into 2-3 doses a day is given for 2-4 weeks. Monitor coagulation profile during treatment and after treatment. Restrict animal's activity until 1 week after treatment is completed.

Side Effects
Do not use intravenously (IV) as death has resulted. Intramuscular (IM) injections may cause bleeding especially in the early stages of treatment. Subcutaneous (SQ) and oral doses may be poorly absorbed in dehydrated patients. Pain, tenderness, and swelling may occur at injection sites.

Contraindications/Warnings
Do not give to patients who are hypersensitive(allergic) to it.

Not for use in pregnant or nursing animals.

Does not correct bleeding disorders resulting from heparin administration or liver damage.

Keep the pet quiet during and for a week after treatment.

Monitor for signs of bruising and bleeding. Vitamin K3 is not effective. Need to use Vitamin K1.

Not treating a pet poisoned with anticoagulant rodenticides will likely result in the animal's death. Treatment needs to begin immediately.

Contact your veterinarian if you think your pet may have ingested (eaten) rat/mouse poison.

^^ copied from:

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=26+1303&aid=1462



Unfortunately there are other types of mouse and rat poison have no known antidote at this time, including Vitamin D Analogs, bromethalin, strychnine (gopher bait), and zinc phosphide also sometimes found in gopher bait. With these toxins your only hope is to induce vomiting within the first hour and then contact your vet ASAP as quick supportive treatment may sometimes help.

from:

http://www.vetblog.net/2015/08/dog-vitamin-k-rat-mouse-bait-poison.html


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ABSTRACT: Twenty dogs received a potentially lethal (15 mg/kg) dose of brodifacoum, a halogenated coumarin-type anticoagulant poison. Eleven were immediately treated with vitamin K: daily for 5 days, either by intramuscular injections (2 mg/kg) or oral tablets (1 mg/kg). It was necessary to give further doses of vitamin Kj to most of the dogs for up to 2 weeks after the first treatment period to reduce their P times to normal levels (<10 seconds). Four dogs were not given further vitamin Kj and two of these died of acute blood loss from an intrathoracic hemorrhage. Nine dogs received vitamin K: (2 mg/kg by intramuscular injection) when clinical signs of anticoagulant poisoning were observed. Two dogs died suddenly without premonitory clinical signs of poisoning. The remaining 7 dogs showed various signs of anticoagulant poisoning 4 to 8 days after dosing and they received a 5 day course of vitamin Kr After this period one dog had a transient rise in its P time but this returned to normal without treatment, while another dog was treated on days 16,20,29 and 30. In conclusion, the authors recommended vitamin K: therapy, 2 mg/kg by tablet or injection, daily for 3 weeks in cases of known or suspected brodifacoum poisoning in dogs.

from:

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1017&context=vpcthirteen
 
You seem to have managed a disaster very well! Keep that vit. K going for the full four (or six?) weeks for your Silkie, and be much more careful with bait! The other useful but more toxic baits available would have been fatal for sure. Use them in the bait stations, and then in separate areas that the chickens can't access, next to the tunnels. Most rodents die in their tunnels, but pick up any you find and dispose of them NOT outside.
No amount of 'natural' leaves would have saved your bird!!!
Mary
 
Thank you Bonnie Stomper, DwayneNLiz and Folly’s Place for your helpful informative comments!

The Silkie is loving the attention and treats. She seems fine, good appetite and no signs of weakness, lethargy or unusual behavior.
 

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