Rosecombs, fertility, Sebrights, and advice needed

[ditzyanne]

Hi, I could use some advice here.

By pure luck I happened into some silver sebright hatching eggs (from a small scale breeder) about 8 months ago and ended up with 4 pullets & 2 cockerels. They are delightful, I'm so excited that they've just started laying, BUT: one of those cockerels has a single comb. 1 pullet has a very clear rose comb, the other 3 have much more understated combs.

My understanding is that the rosecomb gene (or one version of it?) is linked to reduced fertility. Both cockerels breed the pullets, as of this week. I'm trying to figure out: should I split them (rosecomb quartet and a pair for the single) and keep the single comb as a backup in case the rosecomb doesn't fertilize effectively? Or should I cull this and any future single combs, in order to stick to the standard? What are the odds of screwing myself over if I do cull? And is there a way to figure out their genes without testing every possible combo?

I've never shown birds but I would like to, some day. This chance-selected stock may or may not be what I stick with for a show line, but for now I'd like to learn with them.

 

[sourland]

I would breed from the rosecomb cockerel and keep the straight combed bird as a backup.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Are you from the States or another country where Sebrights aren't common?
If from the states I'd ditch all single combed birds and watch what the others produce. A rose comb bird can carry a single comb gene. Sometimes it's not impossible to tell because their comb will be off. You said something about combs on others so I'd watch those.
There is a link to lower fertility with rose combs but I personally never saw it being enough of an issue to really hinder a breeding project.

 

[ditzyanne]

Are you from the States or another country where Sebrights aren't common?
If from the states I'd ditch all single combed birds and watch what the others produce.

Correct, I am from the states! And I will definitely keep this in mind about selecting for breeding birds. I've probably just listened to too many justifications for why some lines of rose-combed breeds are still occasionally heterogenous for it.

There is a link to lower fertility with rose combs but I personally never saw it being enough of an issue to really hinder a breeding project.

I appreciate the feedback about the fertility in rose combs! It helps to know that other people work past it just fine.

 

[ditzyanne]

Thank you both for the help!

Upon further reflection, if I were to have fertility issues, it would probably make the most sense to source a cockerel from elsewhere rather than using this closely related, out-of-standard one. (Since I have no idea how inbred my flock is, and that could be a confounding factor in identifying the source of infertility.)

 

[NatJ]

And is there a way to figure out their genes without testing every possible combo?

The single comb one is easy: no gene for rose comb.

For the ones that show rose combs, if any of their chicks show single combs, you know you have at least one female and one male that carry the gene for single combs.

If you want to be sure about the genes, yes you need to test-mate them.
Do you have any single comb chickens that are not Sebrights? You could use them for testing too. Depending on what you use, you might be able to recognize crossed chicks, which would let you skip the weeks of time that are usually needed when switching roosters if you want to be sure who sired chicks. (Example: a Black Cochin would produce black chicks with feathered feet, which would be easy to distinguish from pure Sebright chicks. This works no matter which parent is the Sebright and which is the Black Cochin.)

 

[ditzyanne]

If you want to be sure about the genes, yes you need to test-mate them.
Do you have any single comb chickens that are not Sebrights? You could use them for testing too. Depending on what you use, you might be able to recognize crossed chicks...

Oh, that's a really good idea! Unfortunately, besides the Sebrights my birds are all LF. Maybe a salmon faverolle hen or one of the Legbar hens could be used to test the rosecomb cockerel?

For the girls, I'd have to gamble on my LF Legbar roo. He's got a good temperment, he's wonderful about keeping the ladies from fighting and he's only ever 'overbred' one hen, but the Sebrights are *so* tiny compared to him. The slow way to test using my current fowl involves the wait you described (a month of leaving the hens with the single combed cockerel) and then hatching, knowing that all resulting chicks will carry no more than one copy of the rosecomb gene, and looking to see if any carry no copies of it (single comb.)

Please, someone correct me if I'm misunderstanding how these genes play out in reality.

 

[NatJ]

Oh, that's a really good idea! Unfortunately, besides the Sebrights my birds are all LF. Maybe a salmon faverolle hen or one of the Legbar hens could be used to test the rosecomb cockerel?

Yes, I think those kinds of hens would work fine for testing the Sebright cockerel. You should be able to tell which eggs are theirs instead of coming from the Sebrights, so just hatching them separately (or separated inside the incubator) should be enough to let you know which chicks are which. Or you can hatch them together and sort the chicks afterward: muff/beard means a Faverolle mother, crest means a Legbar mother, and chicks from either mother should grow larger than pure Sebrights and have partial lacing or no lacing, so they will probably be pretty easy to spot at all ages.

For the girls, I'd have to gamble on my LF Legbar roo. He's got a good temperment, he's wonderful about keeping the ladies from fighting and he's only ever 'overbred' one hen, but the Sebrights are *so* tiny compared to him. The slow way to test using my current fowl involves the wait you described (a month of leaving the hens with the single combed cockerel) and then hatching, knowing that all resulting chicks will carry no more than one copy of the rosecomb gene, and looking to see if any carry no copies of it (single comb.)

Yes, that would probably work.

Chicks with a Sebright mother and a Legbar father will have white barring (should be especially obvious on the black parts of their feathers), should have crests, should not have nice lacing, and I would expect them to be sexlinks as well (gold daughters, silver sons.)

Please, someone correct me if I'm misunderstanding how these genes play out in reality.

Your understanding matches mine