run construction question

[capebird]

I'm building the run, planning on using 4x4 lumber for the base and top plates
and also 4x4 for the verticals.... to which I'll adhere the 1/2 inch wire cloth.
My question is for people with this similar layout... how did you adhere the verticals
to the base and top plates? I was going to just toe nail the joints... but then thought
I'd use simpson ties... but that got pretty expensive...so now I'm back to just thinking
about toenailing where the vertical and horizontal members meet. Anyone have any other
ways of doing the joints? Thank you.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

You could predrill and screw them so the vertical doesn't move about while attaching it.

 

[patandchickens]

So, this is going to be a sort of stud-wall construction thing (except with 4x4s) instead of fence-style on posts sunk into teh ground? If so, make sure you put extra attention into anchoring it, I know it'll be heavy but do NOT count on weight alone to prevent something from lifting it up. If you will be doing a good wide apron that will be well attached to the ground that may be enough, but if there will be no apron or if it will be structurally-separate (e.g. a course of 18x24" pavers all around) or if you are in a very windy area, you might consider putting in a coupla of ground anchors too, that attach to the run frame.

If it were me I would probably do it differently to begin with, but if I *were* using 4x4s all 'round in a frame construction, I think I would build each side flat on the ground, shooting a good long lag bolt thru the horizontal member into the endgrain of the vertical member, and then 'toescrew' from the other side with several reasonably-thick coated or galvanized screws. That's probably the best structural strength you're going to get IMHO without using either additional pieces of lumber or metal widgets. Then erect the separate walls and attach them together, I'd be inclined to spring for good-quality galvanized widgets (mending plates, or L-braces) where the wall units join each other.

JMHO, there are of course lots of ways to do it, good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[TouchO'Lass]

A lap joint makes a strong union as well and helps some in keeping your lumber lined up while you're trying to add your lag screws. One version can be seen here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lap_joint

That's some big dimension lumber for a run. Are your top and bottom plates already in place? If so and you have the tools, you could notch half the upper and lower plate and both ends of the uprights. If not, I would consider smaller lumber (2x4) other than for the corner uprights and just use standard framing methods (end nail and toe nail or screw)

You might also cut gussetts out of 1/2" or 3/4" ply. The picture is of a metal gussett, (not my drawing) but wood works well as extra support and is much cheaper than simpsons! It would only go inside, tho', to not interfere with your wire attachment.

Good luck!

 

[capebird]

Thanks all for the suggestions.

I wasn't going to "anchor" the run to the ground but after
reading Patandchickens suggestion... I think I'll extend the 4 corners
of the 4x4 posts 2 feet into the ground.
I had considered lap joints (lot of work).. but in some joints I think
that's what I'll do. And I will try "toenailing" the other joints... but
I think I'll use a ledgerlok type screw (rather than nails).... I also
like the gusset the idea on the inside of the run.... so thanks all
for the help.
John

 

[patandchickens]

Plywood gussets are OK for the upper connection (I'd use a length of 2x6 or 2x8 myself, but am probably overly influenced by being raised to build things to withstand the sun going supernova

) but you don't want to do that for the ground-level one. Well, MAYBE it would be ok with marine-grade plywood, I've never done nor seen that in this application (but then you really ought to use stainless steel fasteners and that pumps up the cost considerably), but I can tell you that even p/t ply will not last particularly long when used in smallish ground-contact pieces. (ask me how I know

)

Pat

 

[capebird]

thanks.... maybe simpson tie connectors just on the bottom and ply gussets on the top connections.
that would keep the cost down a bit.