Sand as substrate & cheap dog food as feed?

[little_grey_bantam]

Once again, the dog food was more of an idea. We'll be getting chicken feed by the barrel for nearly nothing pretty soon!


Also, remember, nearly 3/4 the "dog food" on the market is crap. Actually, the majority of most animal feed is crap... the diet content is all screwed up and can actually prove to be terrible for our pets. To find the best nutrition possible, we have to do research and create and then hand mix our own food (which goes for our pet rats, our dogs and the chickens!). We try to steer clear of buying too much "processed" goods, but for chickens, lol, we'll have to find a place where we can actually produce our own feed! For now, feed store food will be good enough and farmer grown stuff is better!

One of these days (okay, in the future lol) I plan to raise cattle, sheep and goats and some chickens to feed the dogs and raise a garden and do "trades" with local farmers and such for their local grain... someone around here actually produces organic food for poultry (I think they specialize in chickens and ducks above anything else) and hopefully I'll have met them by then and be able to get that at a good price! I know, taking it a little too far, but I'd really like to be self-sufficient... though I think I may be taking nutrition a little too far, but it's fun, so I suppose it's worth it

 

[horsejody]

Most cheap dog foods don't even meet the nutritional needs of a dog. It is a poor substitute for quality chicken food. Too much in the diet could make for bad tasting eggs too.

 

[cyanne]

Just curious, but what is wrong with just buying layer feed?

I get a 16% layer mash at the local feed store for $9.97 for 50 lbs. It has everything they need including calcium. With 60 chickens they go through about 50 lbs a week if they are penned up and about 1/3 to 1/2 of that if they are free ranging.

Seems like you'd be spending at least that much to buy dog food, veggies, etc... and trying to create a complete feed for them when you could just save the trouble and buy the layer.

Also, not sure if wetting the crumble is a good idea. That might cause it to spoil and grow mold. If they are wasting a lot of their feed (mine went through this phase so I feel your pain) you can try a couple of other tricks. One is to hang your feeders higher. The goal is to make it so they have to stand up practically on tip-toe to reach. This seems to work well to keep them from shoving their whole face in and shoveling feed out onto the floor. Also, if you are using one of the common galvanized feeders it should have a way to control the amount that comes out...make sure it is set at the lowest level so the feed doesn't pour out as fast.

And finally, think about switching from crumbles to pellets. Mine used to dump half of their crumbles into the floor before I switched to the pellets and now they don't waste any.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Quote:
Nawww, if you can find a steel yard in your area you can buy 20 foot lengths of re bar cheap. Usually you must cut them yourself to transport but some yards will do it for you. It is what I used to stop my dogs from digging under the out buildings. I just cut them a foot long and drove them into the ground. I doubt it would work for some varmints like weasels and rats.

 

[little_grey_bantam]

Thanks!

Sadly, I haven't seen any pellet forms of food... at least, not this close by to us... I should be looking for it! I've heard of it and seen it! But none at Walmart... TSC, Orshelns or any other feed store... maybe it's because they're always all sold out or don't carry since people don't purchase it as much. I remember last year, sometimes we'd head into town and everything, I mean EVERYTHING would be sold out... chicken feed wise!

I do wet down the food but only enough that they can eat it and finish it when I'm there. We switch from 16% to 18% layer crumble, since sometimes there aren't of the one. It's a little harder now, since more people are getting into poultry and someone is sneaking off with all the feed.

For now, the galvanized cans that we use ... explode? due to the cold? or at least, they crack... god knows why. And the plastic deteriorate in the sun and will sorta crack in the cold? They're all new, no more than six months old, I think it's the fact that everything is more cheaply made nowadays that they break so easily?

We made these wooden feeders and they're set up on blocks but some of the naughtier birds like to jump on top and this flips over the top off and the one on top will "shovel" everything out... or at least, shovel it down below lol. Those banties are sneaky. We usually have a bowl out also since we can't seem to find anything reliable for the moment. We're thinking about using a dog feeder (automatic). In my past experience, the chickens would stick their head in, eat what they want and when they pull out to "scratch", the door closes and they end up scratch the ground. They proceed to eat like that again LOL

We only really go into the big town when supplies run low... our small town doesn't even have a feed store... the closest is a grainery to get grain from. I wonder how in the world everyone else living in a small town survives lol this is the first time I've been out of the big city!

 

[CovenantCreek]

I'd ask at TSC -- if yours doesn't carry it they should be able to order it for you, since it is something the company sells. Or if they can tell you when they'll be getting a fresh shipment maybe you can get them to set some aside for you to pick up.

 

[ChooksChick]

I wonder if you ordered a specific thing, say, 200# of the Layena (it's something I get when our granary order runs out occasionally) if Orscheln's wouldn't hold it in the back for you- especially if you pre-paid.

I know our store will do things like that.

Regarding the feed, someone on here once posted an awesome feeder they made out of PVC pipe that might help you out...I'll see if I can find it.

I would never consider feeding cheap dog food to anything I loved...I used to work in a pet store, and we got the inside scoop on dog food...we used to joke you'd have to really think hard about feeding Ol' Roy or other cheap stuff to your pets, because it may *contain* Ol' Roy....

I'm not sure about what else to do- if you give them something else for grain content, it may lower the amount of protein they get because they aren't hungry for whatever their protein source is- that's why a blended food is good for all-around.

Wish you luck! I couldn't handle a 150 mile drive into a reasonably-sized town...I'd go nuts!

 

[Akane]

I'd use any poultry feed before cheap dog food. Like you said yourself it's mostly crap.

The poultry feed probably has better quality ingredients than that stuff and is balanced for poultry. Game bird feed would be fine if you can only find that. I feed most of my bantams on a gamebird crumble and then supplement calcium since feed here tends to be a bit lower in protein than the average. The highest game bird feed I can find is 22% and that's the highest year round feed for protein. The turkey starter I can get in spring only. Otherwise chick starter and broiler feed is both 18% or less and comes and goes around here. If I get to the feedstore at the right time they have it. Then layer is only 16% protein. Add in any treats that aren't high in protein and my chickens end up only getting 12-14% in their diet which seems far too low.

I would just avoid medicated feeds and otherwise try to feed any poultry feed you can get until you can properly mix a good feed. I would not use cheap anything whether it's cat or dog food since the ingredients are probably worse than the poultry feed and there's really no reason you should try to feed less protein. You are feeding such a variety that I doubt the protein level is that high. Not unless the meat and mealworms make up a majority of their diet. According to the USDA database venison is only 21-36% protein (lower for most raw items). Mealworms are about 36%. Grains are only in the 10% protein range usually so even if you fed half meat or mealworms you'd only be at 15-23% which is about the range you'd want to feed. Adding vegetables and other table scraps can drop that number even farther. I do use much higher quality dog foods like evo and midgrade cat food like nutro and nature's recipe to up protein for my quail.