Sapling Wattle Run?

[cointoss]

Anyone here used saplings to make their runs? I'd love to see some pics. I have some some idea, but there isn't much to look at on the net that I've found. Apparently farmers in England and Australia use this method quite a bit... We're moving the coop this spring and building a much bigger run. Originally I planned to just use 2x4s and wire, but this morning as I was looking at the sapling forest in my back yard which I neglected to cut down last year, and musing about building some nice trellises and arbors, it occured to me why NOT building the framing out of the saplings (whole wood is notoriously strong) and have a pretty run? It'll still be enclosed with wire -- I found one man who made a chicken "castle fortress" using solid wattle walls, but I like to sit and watch my chickens

Anyhoo, anyone who's curious can see some of the ideas I am working with on my blog, healinggreen.blogspot.com.

 

[patandchickens]

I would be very, very concerned about a dog or coyote or raccoon's ability to rip it apart. They are quite a lot stronger than most people give them credit for. If you are experienced in your construction methods it may well be basically-ok at the start (although all it takes is *one* weak spot...). But those things don't weather well, especially when made of common trash-wood saplings which is most likely what you've got in your yard and especially the parts in ground/weed contact.... and fairly quickly they can get weak enough in enough parts that it becomes Free Buffet Night at the predator diner.

So, I mean, I sure wouldn't do it. Brits and Aussies don't have raccoons or coyotes, and quite possibly not as many loose dogs as one may have here either, also plenty of people build runs of *chickenwire* and I would not personally use *that* either as it is pretty obviously not predatorproof at all, at not most modern versions, just cuz people do something doesn't mean it really works all that well for your purposes.

Sapling wattle would make a nice sunshade/windbreak though. Elmo (BYC member) has a lovely coop whose run is surrounded by bamboo (?) wattle or whatever you want to call it, the sheets of bamboo all tied side by side that people use for patio screening or whatever, and you could do something similar with your stuff. You should check out her BYC page and look, anyhow.

JMHO, good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[elmo]

I think Patandchikens is right (as always!) to consider the structural integrity angle. If nothing else, if you use saplings for the posts, the part in contact with the ground will rot like any other untreated wood.

I do think there are many other uses for your saplings, though. Natural perches are one use. I wish I had more in our yard to use for this purpose.

Make a sunshade or windblock as Patandchickens suggested. Chickens love having a visual cover when they're out in the run, too. I think it makes them feel more secure from raptors; they don't realize that they're safe inside a wire topped run.

I use willow and reed rolled fencing around our runs, but if I had my own saplings to work with, I would certainly use those!

 

[cointoss]

Well, I am an experienced DIY-er, and not planning on having anything rot because one simply treats the wood where it contacts the ground -- the same way our grandparents did. I'm not really asking for advice on why not to do it, but rather curious for advice from people who have experience with it. They also use this method throughout Asia, Africa and other parts of the world where there are more serious predators than around here.

The sort of sappling use I am envisioning will be quite strong, just as strong as any 2x4. And I never said I was using hex chicken wire, just mentioned "wire' so people would know it wouldn't be plastic netting or something else goofy. Oh, and I have oak and hickory and cedar saplings in my yard. Those are definitely not junkwood, so that is good.

The only predator that will be able to potentially get in my coop will be a bear, because really, nothing keeps out bear if they really want at something.

My other run used 2x2s and "hardware cloth" (actually a sort of welded wire) and always proved impenetrable to both the racoons, coyotes and fisher we have around here. The only reason I lost my flock in the end was that I had just had a baby and when she was 1 week I forgot to lock up the girls until 10pm -- in January. A hungry coon found them, and well.... They were alwasy freerange, and had to be locked up each night -- so this time I am planning on keeping them in the big run/coop most of time, which will be totally enclosed and require no locking up at night... Though I might make a lawn tractor for to use nice days...

The new run will be under pinetrees and between a privacy fence and the house, on an already shady property, so I won't be needing any wind or shade breaks, either

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Yeah, our grandparents also had to replace small-caliber wood every few years, because no matter what you do, it just DOESN'T last long. (Yes, 8" diameter old-growth posts soaked in creosote for 6 months DO last reasonably well in the ground, but that is a different situation than what you seem to be proposing with your small-diameter branches).

Read some old books on fence-building, you will see where they take it for granted that fences built with small-diameter material are going to have to be refurbished or replaced on a frequent basis.

Not telling you not to do it, obviously you can do as you please and why not

, just pointing out some basic physics of how this type of wood behaves.

(p.s. cedar is not at all strong. It has moderately rot-resistant heartwood, but the sapwood is not particularly rot-resistant and none of it is *strong* in any way shape or form so I would suggest if you really want to do this that you stick with green-worked oak saplings and hickory.)

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[itsachicken]

I think it's a great idea! I don't have any practical experience but I did a lot of research a few years back because I wanted to build a wattle and daub shed. This form of construction can be very tight and tough. The Brits and Aussies may not have raccoons and coyotes but they do have some pretty aggressive predators of their own. Badgers, foxes, weasels and dingoes come to mind. There are a lot of BYC members from across the pond and down under, hopefully one of them with some actual experience will see this thread and chime in with some good help for your. Please keep us posted and remember, we like pictures!

 

[DAYDRINKER]

I'd like to put on up to just because they are so cool looking. PErhaps composite contruction? Steel ground posts, wattle between, hardware cloth apron at bottom?

http://www.gowildgardening.co.uk/who.htm

 

[cointoss]

I plan on enclosing the whole thing, top bottom and sides, with wire fencing rather like a boxcar. It's going on a dirt area that is great to sctrtch in, but impossible to dig -- rocks rocks rocks! so rather than make an apron, I'm just going for extra wire.

 

[patandchickens]

Ooooooohhhhhh... hang on.... do you mean a conventional wire run and simply use cut saplings instead of 2x4s?

I thought you meant (as per your thread title) that the run would be made out of wattle fence (your saplings being woven or wired into wattle panels) *instead of* wire.

If all you want to do is use lengths of saplings for FRAMING a conventional run, I'd say sure go for it for the elements not in ground contact. Use bigger rather than smaller diameter ones, obviously, but absolutely. For ground-contact portions (posts, and any ground-level horizontal elements you may have) I would still suggest something more durable like p/t wood or metal, or if you want untreated then use LARGE diameter cedar e.g. peeled 5" fenceposts. Make sure the wire mesh part of the construction is such that it will not open up if wooden parts fail.

Sorry to have misunderstood,
Pat