Satin silkie x satin silkie

[Timbers Happy Hens]

Just a quick question as I have Cochins, silkies and satins. If you cross a satin silkie hen and satin silkie rooster, what is the likelihood that you will hatch silkie chicks? And for how many generations would you have to breed the satin out to produce true Cochins or true silkies?

 

[I Like Turkeys]

By Satin, do you mean a one-generation cross of a silkie and cochin, or the type of bird which, in every aspect except feather type, are identical to silkies?

About a 0-25%. Silkie-feathering is recessive, represented by 'h'. Normal feathering is represented by "H+". (H+/H+) is a bird who has normal feathering, and it will always look identical to a (H+/h) bird in feather type. (H+/h) represents a 'split'; a bird who carries the silkie-feathered gene. You cannot tell visually, so you have to test breed them to see whether they carry the gene.

In an f1 silkie/cochin cross, this would be guaranteed, and you would have a 25% on each chick to get a silkie-feathered bird.

On the Satins which have been bred to look identical to silkies, you cannot guarantee each and every bird is split for silkie-feathering. Some Satins will not carry it, so you'd just have to test breed them to see if you get silkied chicks- if so, congrats, both carry it! If not, well, you've got more test breeding to do to see whether either of them carry it.

(H+/h) x (H+/h) = 50% (H+/h), 25% (H+/H+), 25%(h/h). Aka- 75% normal feathered birds, 25% silkied.

If in doubt, it's best to cross your potential carries to a silkie-feathered bird.
(H+/h) x (h/h) = 50% (H+/h), 50% (h/h).


As for how many generations it'd take to breed a pure silkie or cochin, it varies. Going from an f1 silkie/cochin cross, if you breed enough and cull hard enough, you could theoretically swing either way in as few as 2-3 generations. It'd likely take way longer than that though, if you aren't breeding like crazy. Certain traits can stick around without being seen, then make a problem of themselves by popping up again, and wrecking your progress towards converting the crosses into either breed. Case in hand: I'm sort of trying to do the same thing right now with f2 cochin/silkie crosses(breeding towards being just cochin bantams), and have polydactyly popping up in my chicks even though none of the parents exhibit polydactyly.

From an actual Satin- as in, the birds identical to silkies aside from feather type, I wouldn't even bother trying to breed them into cochins. It'd be a lot of pointless work, and you'd have to be betting on the slim possibility that your breeders carry genes/are impure for the following traits:

Crests
Polydactyly
Fibromelanism
Comb shape

edit: if you were to cross the satins to a cochin, it'd still be a lot of work to breed those listed traits out.

A big bet to be making on slim chances, essentially. Last I heard, Satins were also working towards APA and/or ABA recognition, so why even try turning them into silkies when they're so close to being their own breed?

 

[Timbers Happy Hens]

By Satin, do you mean a one-generation cross of a silkie and cochin, or the type of bird which, in every aspect except feather type, are identical to silkies?

About a 0-25%. Silkie-feathering is recessive, represented by 'h'. Normal feathering is represented by "H+". (H+/H+) is a bird who has normal feathering, and it will always look identical to a (H+/h) bird in feather type. (H+/h) represents a 'split'; a bird who carries the silkie-feathered gene. You cannot tell visually, so you have to test breed them to see whether they carry the gene.

In an f1 silkie/cochin cross, this would be guaranteed, and you would have a 25% on each chick to get a silkie-feathered bird.

On the Satins which have been bred to look identical to silkies, you cannot guarantee each and every bird is split for silkie-feathering. Some Satins will not carry it, so you'd just have to test breed them to see if you get silkied chicks- if so, congrats, both carry it! If not, well, you've got more test breeding to do to see whether either of them carry it.

(H+/h) x (H+/h) = 50% (H+/h), 25% (H+/H+), 25%(h/h). Aka- 75% normal feathered birds, 25% silkied.

If in doubt, it's best to cross your potential carries to a silkie-feathered bird.
(H+/h) x (h/h) = 50% (H+/h), 50% (h/h).


As for how many generations it'd take to breed a pure silkie or cochin, it varies. Going from an f1 silkie/cochin cross, if you breed enough and cull hard enough, you could theoretically swing either way in as few as 2-3 generations. It'd likely take way longer than that though, if you aren't breeding like crazy. Certain traits can stick around without being seen, then make a problem of themselves by popping up again, and wrecking your progress towards converting the crosses into either breed. Case in hand: I'm sort of trying to do the same thing right now with f2 cochin/silkie crosses(breeding towards being just cochin bantams), and have polydactyly popping up in my chicks even though none of the parents exhibit polydactyly.

From an actual Satin- as in, the birds identical to silkies aside from feather type, I wouldn't even bother trying to breed them into cochins. It'd be a lot of pointless work, and you'd have to be betting on the slim possibility that your breeders carry genes/are impure for the following traits:

Crests
Polydactyly
Fibromelanism
Comb shape

edit: if you were to cross the satins to a cochin, it'd still be a lot of work to breed those listed traits out.

A big bet to be making on slim chances, essentially. Last I heard, Satins were also working towards APA and/or ABA recognition, so why even try turning them into silkies when they're so close to being their own breed?

Thank you for your incredibly detailed response! This is exactly what I was looking for. And I meant the cross between silkies and Cochins. I have a Cochin roo and a couple hens and a silkie hen and a satin roo and a couple hens. Just wanted to know what the likelihood was to get a silkie from the crosses.