Settle a debate: wild type autosexing?

[pinewoodacres]

Are wild type chicks considered autosexing due to the sexual dimorphism or is that only applicable to sex-linked traits like barring? I was under the impression that this IS autosexing but someone today said only if there is something like barring involved, which doesn’t make sense to me. That would just be sex-linked and doesn’t necessarily breed true without two copies. Whereas a carefully bred e+ would be sexable at hatch without needing anything added to it.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Autosexing means that you can tell the difference between males and females at hatch. If the chicks of a wildtype-patterned breed can be sexed at hatch by their down coloring, then yes, they are autosexing.

The barring gene can be used to produce autosexing chicks, but is not a requirement. Many autosexing breeds like Legbars and Bielefelders use the barring gene to produce an autosexing chick down pattern. But not all autosexing breeds have the barring gene. Silver Gray Dorkings, for example, are often autosexing if properly bred for the trait. My Silver Duckwing and Fawn Silver Duckwing OEGBs were autosexing when I was hatching from them. Neither have the barring gene involved.

 

[Florida Bullfrog]

Wild type doesn’t auto sex at hatch in my experience. However, a few weeks later sex becomes apparent when feathers come in. Cockerels will have a different pattern than pullets with much more brownish-red on their bodies.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Autosexing is when you can determine sex at hatch and they breed true for that ability generation after generation.
The most common and reliable autosexing breeds do use barring and wildtype together.
Wildtype alone can be autosexing in certain lines where it's bred for. If you don't selectively breed for it it slips away easily. In my experience most wildtype chicks can't be reliably sexed at hatch. Usually some look female, some look male and some are too close to call either way.

 

[sdm111]

Broad stripe on head and eye stripe - pullet
Narrow stripe on head, stripe on side of head near ear does not go all the way to the eye - stag

 

[pinewoodacres]

Autosexing means that you can tell the difference between males and females at hatch. If the chicks of a wildtype-patterned breed can be sexed at hatch by their down coloring, then yes, they are autosexing.

The barring gene can be used to produce autosexing chicks, but is not a requirement. Many autosexing breeds like Legbars and Bielefelders use the barring gene to produce an autosexing chick down pattern. But not all autosexing breeds have the barring gene. Silver Gray Dorkings, for example, are often autosexing if properly bred for the trait. My Silver Duckwing and Fawn Silver Duckwing OEGBs were autosexing when I was hatching from them. Neither have the barring gene involved.

Thank you. This was exactly what I was thinking. I’m working on autosexing olive eggers using Welsummers and Cream Legbars and I was going to keep a line with barring and another without. Which led to the question of if I can call them “autosexing” without barring. I band them all at hatch and don’t keep anyone where I was wrong so I’m purposely selecting to breed for proper chick down patterning.

 

[pinewoodacres]

Wild type doesn’t auto sex at hatch in my experience. However, a few weeks later sex becomes apparent when feathers come in. Cockerels will have a different pattern than pullets with much more brownish-red on their bodies.

Autosexing is when you can determine sex at hatch and they breed true for that ability generation after generation.
The most common and reliable autosexing breeds do use barring and wildtype together.
Wildtype alone can be autosexing in certain lines where it's bred for. If you don't selectively breed for it it slips away easily. In my experience most wildtype chicks can't be reliably sexed at hatch. Usually some look female, some look male and some are too close to call either way.

This seems to be an issue for some lines. I know Welsummers apparently have this issue. I have one Welsummer hen that has some kind of hypermelanation going on and all her babies look like girls bc the dark parts of the chick down are so dark and well-defined. I am going to only use those in the barred line so the head spots will do the trick instead. The hypermelanation is producing some cool results in the adult feathering and I wish I understood the genetics behind it. I also have it going on with my super white-looking Cream Legbar cockerel and a couple of his sisters (who do look hypermelanated, but he does not). I can’t figure out what is happening with that as far as genotype, which bugs me. Lol

I have had many ambiguous chicks but I’ve gotten pretty good at telling the difference. But I still try not to breed forward the ambiguous ones and I definitely do not breed the ones I am wrong about. I cut their legbands off which means they are culls.

I wish more breeders kept this as a focus. It’s really great for marketing, at the very least.

 

[pinewoodacres]

Also I have noticed that I’m usually wrong in thinking they are girls when they are boys rather than the reverse. There’s only been one where I thought it was a boy but it turned out to be a girl, and I don’t mean the poorly-marked Legbar females, either. Those I can spot.