sex diluted barring, Is it only visible on E^R?

[Spangled]

One source claims that B^sd is only on E^R. Can it also be seen on other E alleles? Or rather, will it work properly on other E alleles. It appeared on a couple of ?/eWh chicks here. Sire (purebred) has unknown E allele, while dam (purebred) has eWh E allele.

If I breed chicks to each other (big if, but theoretically), would the sex dilute barring show up on any eWh/eWh i/i chicks? What about eb or e+?

Is the barring visible at hatch? In the ?/eWh chicks I have, where the sire was homozygous for B^sd, the barring wasn't evident in the chick down at hatch. I guess the barring became evident around two or three weeks.

 

[tadkerson]

One source claims that B^sd is only on E^R. Can it also be seen on other E alleles? Or rather, will it work properly on other E alleles. It appeared on a couple of ?/eWh chicks here. Sire (purebred) has unknown E allele, while dam (purebred) has eWh E allele.

If I breed chicks to each other (big if, but theoretically), would the sex dilute barring show up on any eWh/eWh i/i chicks? What about eb or e+?

Is the barring visible at hatch? In the ?/eWh chicks I have, where the sire was homozygous for B^sd, the barring wasn't evident in the chick down at hatch. I guess the barring became evident around two or three weeks.

The B^sd allele is most visible on a Extended black or any combination of genes that produce a bird with a black ground color. That would be on a female or a male that only carried one B^sd allele. Barring hardly shows on wheaten females (rhodebars) producing a dark buff looking bird. Barring on wheaten birds will cause the down of the males (B/B) to be a lighter color than the females (B/b+). I am not sure how the B^sd gene would effect the production of pheomelanin pigments (red). I do know that the barring gene (B) will dilute red pigment. Tim

 

[Henk69]

What I understand is, is that the sexlinked dilution gene is very rare. The first question would be: how do I get it...

 

[ChooksChick]

What I understand is, is that the sexlinked dilution gene is very rare. The first question would be: how do I get it...

Well, if you have any insights, please share! I'd like to know where to get it!

 

[Henk69]

Well, if you have any insights, please share! I'd like to know where to get it!

I was probing for any insights too...

 

[Spangled]

Quote:

Hmmmm. While I surely appreciate your reply and insights, Tim, I'm still not sure what to think ... especially when Henk thinks B^sd is rare. I'm not one to stumble onto something rare, so now I'm thinking this must be something else. What? Maybe it's just blue barring? Is there such a thing? Who knows? Maybe later in the summer I just might put my rooster with some other (or maybe the same) hens and see what I get. This time I will pay a little more attention to when the light barring shows up.

The fact that B^sd might be barely noticeable on wheaten is a little disconcerting or maybe it's very cool. It's funny that standard B barely shows up on a Rhodebar female (I went and looked at them at Greenfire and also google images) and yet B seems fairly evident on Lemon Cuckoo. But maybe I've got that all wrong. Barring isn't one of my favorite genes so I haven't looked into it much.

 

[Spangled]

What I understand is, is that the sexlinked dilution gene is very rare. The first question would be: how do I get it...

Ah, well, then. Maybe I'd be smarter to look for some other genetic anomaly to blame this weird barring on. If it's very rare, then the likelihood of me having it is nearly nil. Like smokey, I suppose. I resolve to bark up another tree (when I receive that unlimited supply of time that I requested).

 

[ChooksChick]

Do show us some pics!

I have several Blue Barres from a project, and in the hens it is very faint- some almost don't appear to have it, like one sees with the BuffBarred/LemonCuckoos that appear so very faint. It's there, just not a poignant contrast.

I'm also working on a Bielfelder project and while I've not yet even made my initial cross, I'm going to be having attentive eyes as to how all of it progresses, as I've not played with barring in multiple ways before.

 

[Spangled]

Do show us some pics!

I have several Blue Barres from a project, and in the hens it is very faint- some almost don't appear to have it, like one sees with the BuffBarred/LemonCuckoos that appear so very faint. It's there, just not a poignant contrast.

I'm also working on a Bielfelder project and while I've not yet even made my initial cross, I'm going to be having attentive eyes as to how all of it progresses, as I've not played with barring in multiple ways before.

Any hint of frustration is aimed at no one. This is not really a problem. It's just fun to go on and on sometimes. Life is good.

Pics? Har har. I have no idea what I'm looking at any longer. Maybe once I get it all figured out. 1. They are have a red brooder light in their area that is shining on one or the other side of them all the time. So they look extremely odd. 2. They are in with their sibs that I am only now realizing will have one dose of either B^sd (1 in 5000 chance) or blue barring or some other odd barring and I'm stupid with barring. All of them should be displaying light barring, but I can't see it!! I think this could be a big problem. 3. I had thought that their sibs were displaying transitional juvenile barring that always disappears (or always has in the past with other breeds), but now I realize that it could be regular blue barring or maybe even regular blue barring mixed in with transitional juvenile barring. 3. If this is blue barring, then I've got the chance of bbr genetics in these chicks. My little nightmare since I haven't a clue how to get blue out of chickens without test mating or getting blacks and then only keeping the blacks or ???. So more research is in order on that front. I don't even know why they would be blue barred.

Oh, look above. I number it 1, 2, 3, 3. Proves my addled head when it comes to these chicks.

5. These chicks are mixed in with their 1/2 cousins which look almost that same. Yes, I know that there is no such thing as cousins in chickens and that I'm displaying my cursory knowledge of a serious subject. 6. It now hurts my eyes to look at barring (after staring at chicks in heat lamp lighting for 20+ mins. Yes, there's also a regular incandescent bulb in there).

So every chick is identified with a band, but I can't tell what's going on in the brooder area because of the space and the lighting. Next week they'll be out on grass and it will be a little easier. However, at this point, I just want to ignore this plumage mystery for a couple of months and let them all grow bigger and grow out of what I hope is juvenile autosomal barring (I think I'm using the term properly) and then that will display more reliably what I may actually be dealing with barred plumage wise. I want to enjoy these little guys and gals and can't if I keep trying to figure out what's going on with their plumage mystery.

Now, your Bielefelders. Like these on You Tube? Is it just me or is that intro music a little overly dramatic?

Is it Wagner?

Interesting looking chickens. They sound like they would be great winter layers. I'm beginning to wonder if working with barred chickens is making my vision worse? Kidding. Mostly.

 

[Kev]

Well, if you have any insights, please share! I'd like to know where to get it!

It's rare? The ones I had segregated out of a line of bantam white naked necks bred for show:

Homozygous cockerel:



Hen (heterozygous cockerels looked much like this)



It can look like 'barred blue' as the colored parts are pale greyish(zero chance of blue, it did not segregate nor were any bred to blues). Their feathers always had a lot of white coming up from the base, some birds show it on the primaries/secondaries like on the hen above plus she had some entirely white primary feathers. can't remember if legs on hens were all clear like hers or not... she's the only one with pictures taken of.

Fun fact: both of above and chicks below were homozygous for Fm. None of the birds nor chicks showed the slightest trace of it, unlike on birds with B(common to see some black spots or dark areas especially on chicks). Bsd really does a very good job at diluting pigments...

Chicks were extremely easy to sex:



Here's what Bsd looks on lavender- those cockerels were Bsd/b+ though..



Can barely see the barring. Interestingly in this line, the bars proved to be much more 'controlled'- probably due to feather growth genes from bantam Modern Game rooster? He was lavender and I wanted to make bantam lavender naked necks, Bsd was not my goal, just that the Bsd hens were the only bantam naked necks I had on hand.

This cockerel also has single dose of Bsd, but he did not show any hint of it until it appeared t full maturity..



Unfortunately in regards to OP, never tried breeding any of the Bsd birds to any other E base. I suspect the Modern Game may have been birchen- he had silvery pyle zones and suspect the naked necks in the first three pictures are E.

Finally, large fowl naked neck unrelated to above- was via eggs bought from ebay auction. I suspected he had Bsd, this picture doesnt really show well the light grayish color on his body.. his tail always had a lot of white and his flights were more white than colored. Breeding proved him to be heterozygous and lacking blue(ruling out blue plus barring).. never got around to breeding daughters back to him to see if some cockerels turn out like the one at top. So it will have to remain a unproven guess..



suggestion for a source- California Greys, maybe California White leghorns- iirc the latter is supposed to be a cross of California Grey and white leghorns?