Skinny Chicks!

[marandam5]

My 12 week old Buff Orpings seem underweight.Their keel bone(hope thats right)sticks out very badly,and there is no fat or muscle around it.They are just all bone!Otherwise they seem fine,combs are bright,poop is normal,no sign of worms,but I did worm them using cyanne pepper.We have also checked for mites and they don't have any.They freerange all day and don't seem to eat much of their food,but when I give them treats they always run to me like their starving.
I noticed that the grower/starter from our local coop only had 16% protein,so I sent my DH to get better food, the COOP sent him home with layer 22% protein(they really need to be educated on what chickens should eat)so I have been mixing it with their grower tho help give them more protein.I know they don't need the calcium,but since this is the only feed they have with a high protein level should I continue feeding the layer?
Sorry to ramble.

One more question.Does pepper really work for worms?

 

[Cuban Longtails]

I'd try something stronger than pepper for worming at this point. You probably need a chemical wormer like Safeguard or Ivomec.

More natural stuff to us is DE, raw pumpkin seeds, and buttermilk but I don't know how quick they work if your chickens are infested.

There is also the all natural Verm-X:

http://www.verm-xusa.com

The higher protein feed will help too. Try getting some gamebird crumbles next time as it will not have the calcium that layer food does.

 

[threehorses]

I agree on the gamebird. I would also let the mill know that they should not be recommending laying food to birds who are 2-3 months shy of laying. /sigh

Check for mite again several times this week - at night. Mites don't always stay on the birds, but only go back for feeding. The rest of the time they hide in the cracks of the buildings and even in the bedding around the birds. They only return to the birds when they feed.

If your birds are free-ranging and particularly if they have access to earthworms, or ground where adults were, I would consider worming them. I would use a true wormer, then consider cayenne and other products in-between. At this age, they could have ivermectin, fenbendazole, or levamisole. If they were older I'd recommend wazine first and then one of those other wormers in 2 weeks.

I personally use Ivermectin pour-on for my birds. Post here if you'd like information on that. Additinally, ivermectin will kill mites as mites suck the blood. It won't kill the ones in the coop, but if you treat the coop as IF there were mites you'll help prevent big problems with them in the future.

let us know if you need help with that two.

Use the natural stuff inbetween. Don't use it to treat an infestation if you know there's one.

As for buttermilk, you could alternately use a probiotic like plain yogurt - which still has the bacteria in it. The bacteria are the same that colonize the gut of your bird. Adding more beneficial bacteria occassionally will cause the birds to absorb more of their food, use more of their food. Using it weekly (or another probiotic like Probios) is recommended for birds under laying age, through the first llaying period, and any time a bird is underweight, stressed, or medicated. If you medicate, don't use yogurt (use Probios or acidophilis instead) if you're using a med that contains -mycin or -cycline.

Make the treats count.

Make sure also that the birds eat at least 95% of their daily intake in the complete feed. You could just supplement the protein with cooked eggs without messing up their vitamin/mineral balance of the feed you had. Consider returning the other food since it won't store for 3 months, or give it to a friend who has layers.

Or use as a treat - part of the 5%.

By the way, if they free range, make sure no matter what your ground is like that you also offer them granite grit. It will stay whole longer and is the right size for poultry. If you do that, you could offer some whole oats (after you worm) to help them gain body mass and condition without fat. The hulls of the whole oats encourage the natural beneficial bacteria in them to thrive. Thriving beneficial bacteria help ward off digestive problems and, again, nourish the birds. The higher protein in the whole oats is much preferable to scratch grains and corn. The wholeness of it encourages more nutrition to stay intact versus cracked corn, or the "treat" scratch. Again if that's offered, it should be less than 5% of the total diet. Just a little bit per day. Feed all treats in the afternoon, and scatter them so that the birds have to work for them.

 

[silkiechicken]

Before treating for this and that and thinking they are unhealthy because they are all bones, are you sure that is not "normal"?

If you are comparing them to a chicken from the store, they will be "all bones". The 6-8 week old baby's you find in the meat section weighing in at 5-6 lbs have double breasts and form a U shape over their keel. Your layers should not be double breasted and should form a distinct V at their keel. They should not be anything like store birds, you want to feel the keel bone.

Now, if you go feel that keel and you feel a Y shape, with a 1/4 vertical protrusion like the back side of a knife, then start to worry. If there is no Y shape, in that you can pinch the keel between fingers without squeezing, they are just fine.

 

[marandam5]

I went to the coop this morning and bought Wazine haven't wormed them yet.Should I just wait until Monday and get Ivermectin or go ahead and use the Wazine? Also,I would like the info on Ivermectin.

I do feel the Y shape I have picked up other chickens before and know how a healthy bird should feel.

Our local coop is not very helpful with the food situation.I asked if they had some type of high protein gamebird pellets,he said they had a knockout scratch that was high in protein.SO I don't know what to do about food.

Thank for your help!

 

[threehorses]

Since they're not of laying age, and you're not finding parasites, I'd go ahead and do the wazine. Then in 2 weeks to 4 weeks do the ivermectin. Thereafter, do the ivermectin (and/or something that includes tapes if you feel you need it) twice a year. You can certainly use cayenne and DE in between. I do believe that it's useful to keep the number of annual wormings low in number.

LOL on the scratch. I'd love to hear how they made scratch high protein as it's usually mostly milo, chops, and wheat (aka usually no more than 9% protein - and certainly not any added vitamins/minerals to daily requirements). I would just stick with the 16% and give your own protein - some eggs once a week, etc. At least the 16% (i hope??) has a complete vitamin mineral package. Or does it?

That's what I'd ask next: "Is the vitamin/mineral package in this grower 100% of what they need guaranteed by you, mister ...what was your name again?" Asking their name kindly and with a smile in your voice often gets them to stop dilly-dallying and start thinking more carefully about being accountable when they answer you.

You could also look for a purina or nutrena dealer in the area. Purina won't label their food "complete' unless it meets 100% of the daily requirements for the age and type of bird for which the food is labeled. (I recently learned THAT little fact after buying food from a local big mill that labels as a food having a vitamin/mineral package when it doesn't".

Alternately, if you still have the label of ingredients and type it to me (email is fine or here) or scan it, we can compare it to something like Purina and see what the feed's design looks like.