Teenage Roo Behavior

[Folly's place]

May it continue to be effective for you. @Shadrach also has a good article about roosters, worth reading. His management style may not work so well for many of us, but definitely a good read.
I've never had a permanent fix work for a human aggressive rooster. Never. Just be very watchful around this guy! Do you have children, friends, other family members out there? If yes, he's likely to try other human he meets, not a good thing. Good liability insurance? Hope so.
Mary

 

[getaclue]

Banty, what exactly brought you to the conclusion that my roosters might be afraid of me? As previously stated, the rooster stick is NOT to be used to hurt, them. If that's what you took from it, then you read it wrong. The purpose of the rooster stick, is mostly to extend your reach, as an extension of your arm. A pool noodle would serve the same purpose, but it's not as rigid, giving you less control over it. I mention the pool noodle, because it would be next to impossible to hurt anything by tapping it with a pool noodle, giving a clearer idea of the use of "rooster stick".

The reason you tap it to startle them (not scare the tar out of them, there's a difference) is because at that age they tend to startle easy from a squawking hen, various sounds, sudden activity in the next pen, etc. and go into protection mode, which can provoke them into attacking. This helps condition them not to automatically go into protective mode, and attack you. Again, it's NOT about scaring the heck out of them. If that's what you took from it, then you read it wrong.

All of my roosters will come running towards me like the hens do, but the roosters slow down, and approach slowly WHEN they get into my personal space, and all of them expect to be petted. One loves to be picked up, and petted, but NOT in front of his ladies. I have to shoo the ladies out into the run, then pick him up, and snuggle. His ladies have to wait their turn. He doesn't know what a rooster stick is. He's never needed it.

Another loves to settle on my lap, and will push the ladies off my lap when he's on it. I used the rooster stick on him for about 2 weeks, when he became hormonal. He hasn't had a rooster stick used on him in 4 years, since that 2 week training. All my birds get picked up, and checked over on a daily, or every other day basis. I don't have to chase them down. They all love bath time, especially being wrapped like burritos in the big towels, after their baths. They're not so crazy about getting dusted for mites, but it's not traumatic. Spur, and toenail trimming is not an issue. They all settle right down without a struggle. The one that won't snuggle in front of his ladies, is ticklish on the bottom of his feet. None of my other roosters have ticklish feet like that, but a few of the hens are ticklish. I don't need help working with them, because they settle right down. Did I mention my roosters weigh 9 lbs? It would be very difficult for me to handle them by myself, if they didn't trust me.

The training, and attention pays off at the shows too. They don't get flustered easy in their new surroundings, they aren't intimidated by the judges handling them, or the multiple people that come through to look at them.

I also have a 3 year old Muscovy duck, rescued at about 3 days old. Is she spoiled too? Of course. Actually, when she gets broody, she's meaner than my roosters.

Are they pets? NO. I have a 14 year old cat that is a pet. I don't take on an animal, any animal, that I can't do my best in providing for their needs, safety, and comfort for their entire lives.

 

[getaclue]

Since I made this post, I’ve been working with Rudy to manage his excitement levels and I’m feeling pretty secure that his sudden aggression is rooted in excitement and is going to be manageable.

I’ve stopped giving treats outside the coop for now. (Inside the coops he’s a perfect gentleman, does the food coo and lets the girls at it first). If he does come running up on me outside (because he thinks I have food) I calmly turn to face him with my hands on my hips and he instantly hits the brakes. I keep doing this until he loses interest in me and walks away. In the afternoon instead of calling/leading them into the coop and creating excitement, I’m stopping outside the door and letting him corral the ladies and lead them in. Then I enter and give them food.

I’m really hoping that he will continue to mellow as I work to undo the “people = food” paradigm I’ve created. Fingers crossed!

Since it's working, this may be all that's needed. The part about "if he does come running up on me outside, I calmly turn to face him with my hands on my hips and he instantly hits the brakes" is exactly what you want. Once he hits the brakes, then approaches into your personal space calmly, means you're getting through to him.

I sometimes give treats too. In fact, I raise mealworms, and grow sunflowers for the seeds, for them. It's funny to watch younger roosters get excited about treats, momentarily forget themselves, come charging, remember the personal space thingy, and slam on brakes. You can almost see them thinking OOPS.

 

[BantyChooks]

Banty, what exactly brought you to the conclusion that my roosters might be afraid of me?

Oh, I'm sorry! I was responding to the OP in the second paragraph. I wasn't clear about that. My bad.

The reason I said that about the OP's bird is that typically when a bird avoids me but sneak attacks from the back when not watched, it means they somehow lack confidence in me. Often the aggression resolves when I work with them enough for them to realize I'm not something they need to fixate on. (I think what they're doing now sounds like a great approach.)

 

[BantyChooks]

make that bird jump and RUN. Make him so nervous around you that he is always looking over his shoulder and trying to get out of your way. THAT'S how he needs to be from now on in your lives together.

This is what I disagree with the most and is what did NOT work for me. When I apply force, I never do it in a way that ends up with the rooster watching me in fear, or isolated from the flock. My methods aren't too different other than this point. To me, management by fear only seems to work if you are with them in the coop 24/7 like another rooster would be. Otherwise, their flock dynamic changes drastically when you're there vs not there. I want my roosters to not pay intense attention to me... that type of attention seems to precede aggression.

Also, I don't think the rooster stick is a bad idea. I do something similar. Good for human safety.

Banty, what exactly brought you to the conclusion that my roosters might be afraid of me? As previously stated, the rooster stick is NOT to be used to hurt, them. If that's what you took from it, then you read it wrong. The purpose of the rooster stick, is mostly to extend your reach, as an extension of your arm. A pool noodle would serve the same purpose, but it's not as rigid, giving you less control over it. I mention the pool noodle, because it would be next to impossible to hurt anything by tapping it with a pool noodle, giving a clearer idea of the use of "rooster stick".

The reason you tap it to startle them (not scare the tar out of them, there's a difference) is because at that age they tend to startle easy from a squawking hen, various sounds, sudden activity in the next pen, etc. and go into protection mode, which can provoke them into attacking. This helps condition them not to automatically go into protective mode, and attack you. Again, it's NOT about scaring the heck out of them. If that's what you took from it, then you read it wrong.

All of my roosters will come running towards me like the hens do, but the roosters slow down, and approach slowly WHEN they get into my personal space, and all of them expect to be petted. One loves to be picked up, and petted, but NOT in front of his ladies. I have to shoo the ladies out into the run, then pick him up, and snuggle. His ladies have to wait their turn. He doesn't know what a rooster stick is. He's never needed it.

Another loves to settle on my lap, and will push the ladies off my lap when he's on it. I used the rooster stick on him for about 2 weeks, when he became hormonal. He hasn't had a rooster stick used on him in 4 years, since that 2 week training. All my birds get picked up, and checked over on a daily, or every other day basis. I don't have to chase them down. They all love bath time, especially being wrapped like burritos in the big towels, after their baths. They're not so crazy about getting dusted for mites, but it's not traumatic. Spur, and toenail trimming is not an issue. They all settle right down without a struggle. The one that won't snuggle in front of his ladies, is ticklish on the bottom of his feet. None of my other roosters have ticklish feet like that, but a few of the hens are ticklish. I don't need help working with them, because they settle right down. Did I mention my roosters weigh 9 lbs? It would be very difficult for me to handle them by myself, if they didn't trust me.

The training, and attention pays off at the shows too. They don't get flustered easy in their new surroundings, they aren't intimidated by the judges handling them, or the multiple people that come through to look at them.

I also have a 3 year old Muscovy duck, rescued at about 3 days old. Is she spoiled too? Of course. Actually, when she gets broody, she's meaner than my roosters.

Are they pets? NO. I have a 14 year old cat that is a pet. I don't take on an animal, any animal, that I can't do my best in providing for their needs, safety, and comfort for their entire lives.

I think the way you apply the method sounds like it works for you and your birds in the context of your existing relationship, their genetics, their environment, etc and so I thank you for sharing. My post was meant more to chime in with another thought for OP and certainly not to say that your methods aren't useful.

 

[Mrs. K]

Beware - I am with Folly's Place on this, once they start, they really do not dependably change back. I think people wait until there is a problem and that is too late. I school my roosters long before they become mature, and they give me space.

However, I think it was Centrachid - years ago, mentioned the mobbing behavior when bringing in food. People tend to be flattered and think the birds love them. But it is not that, but rather a hysterical, mob like behavior. Stopping that behavior might work.

I think you have a good idea on controlling the reaction with the food. However, BEWARE - and I would be VERY watchful when other people come to your house. If you have kids under six, - I would not try anything at all except a sharp knife.

Mrs K

 

[deviflux]

I think you have a good idea on controlling the reaction with the food. However, BEWARE - and I would be VERY watchful when other people come to your house. If you have kids under six, - I would not try anything at all except a sharp knife.

Mrs K

Only adults and leashed dogs on the property and so far it’s only been with me (the main caretaker) that he reacts to and only a couple times that he’s actually made contact. He has no reaction other than to move away when other people come near him. The other adults on the property are following the same protocol - no food and calmly stand your ground if he does try anything. Otherwise, move around at will as if he isn’t there.

Prior to the warm weather, he was never ever ever aggressive or this excitable. Even now if I firmly say his name, he immediately stops whatever he’s doing. He’s not a fan of contact but will happily lay at my feet on the front porch and has no issues with me moving around the coop with him and the hens.

I really hope it doesn’t come to it, but I’m being realistic and willing to give him up if it comes to that.

 

[Mrs. K]

I really hope it doesn’t come to it, but I’m being realistic and willing to give him up if it comes to that.

If one has kept chickens long, especially roosters, we know exactly what you are going through. Most of us keep the first rotten one just too long.

Just be careful, wear good thick jeans, be wary of carrying things, or bending over, they are opportunist.

Mrs K

 

[getaclue]

Banty, I sincerely apologize to you for my misunderstanding.

I do agree that it has to be nipped in the bud right away, before it becomes a habit. When cockerels start getting hormonal, they get full of themselves. They'll challenge everything. Heck, I've had a few that were so full of themselves, I swear they would have challenged a fence post as an intruder, if I had set one in the coop. Even so, those are usually the ones that never challenged me, or showed any human aggression.

Usually the hormones balance out more in a short time, so in their attempts to learn to protect a flock, it's much easier to achieve success at redirecting their focus, so they don't see their flockmaster as a threat.

I don't suggest it with an older bird, or one that has established the aggression as a habit.

Maybe I had more success, because I don't have to train them longer than 2 weeks, and I spend LOTS of time with them, as well as using a very hands on approach, so they get very accustomed to me being around them, since they must be very stable around humans to show them. In other words, the training was not just reprimanding them, then leaving. I spend plenty of time for them to get used to me, and they get rewarded some for good behavior. Push/Pull, not just push.

For the record, some of the training is also to teach the flockmaster how to act in their coop too. I've seen at least one lady that was timid, and tried to avoid her chickens, mostly sideskirting them, which seemed to send the message that she didn't really belong there. This does not seem to work too well with an animals that have a pecking order mentality.