The "Ask Anything" to Nicalandia Thread

[NatJ]

I'm still struggling to remove random black feathers and correct or improve some other things.
Was hoping for advice on those stray black feathers. Some of my full Yokohama roos develop those too over time. I don't see that on the girls though, and the boys don't usually show them during the first year or two.

I don't know which specific genes you're working with.

I wonder, if Dominant White is one of the genes, could it be that some of your birds have just one Dominant White gene and some others have two genes for it? If so, you could use test mating to sort out which group is which. (Choose a chicken of another breed that shows plenty of black, so you know it does not have Dominant White, then mate it with the bird to be tested. If you hatch 7 or 8 chicks and they all show Dominant White, the bird being tested is probably pure for that gene. If any chicks have no Dominant White, then the bird being tested has only one copy of Dominant White.)

My full yoko girls show more white as they age (mottling), and the boys sometimes start showing random black feathers. I'm having the same problem with my banties but on a larger scale. Should I breed only from roos that are at least a couple years old and show no black yet? Would that fix this?

That is a good idea, to breed from the roosters that are a couple of years old and do not show black. That should be helpful no matter what genes are actually involved.

And do the hens genes play a role in this...and if so, how do I figure out which hens as I'm already using hens that aren't showing random blacks and I'm still getting those black feathers.

Yes, the genes from the hen would play a role in this.

The first thing I can think of is to track which birds come from which parents, and then breed from the hens who produce sons without the black. If you know which birds are the parents of which other birds, you may be able to figure it out for your current birds.

If you have males with no black, maybe breed from their full sisters, not from hens that have a brother showing black. That would basically be using the males as testers for their parents, then selecting females from the parents that produced good males instead of the ones that produced less-good males.

 

[ChicksnMore]

I don't know which specific genes you're working with.

I wonder, if Dominant White is one of the genes, could it be that some of your birds have just one Dominant White gene and some others have two genes for it? If so, you could use test mating to sort out which group is which. (Choose a chicken of another breed that shows plenty of black, so you know it does not have Dominant White, then mate it with the bird to be tested. If you hatch 7 or 8 chicks and they all show Dominant White, the bird being tested is probably pure for that gene. If any chicks have no Dominant White, then the bird being tested has only one copy of Dominant White.)


That is a good idea, to breed from the roosters that are a couple of years old and do not show black. That should be helpful no matter what genes are actually involved.


Yes, the genes from the hen would play a role in this.

The first thing I can think of is to track which birds come from which parents, and then breed from the hens who produce sons without the black. If you know which birds are the parents of which other birds, you may be able to figure it out for your current birds.

If you have males with no black, maybe breed from their full sisters, not from hens that have a brother showing black. That would basically be using the males as testers for their parents, then selecting females from the parents that produced good males instead of the ones that produced less-good males.

I definitely have dominant white from the yokos and oegb. The olandsk I'm uncertain but I think dominant and silver...silver from the yokos as well, and the seramas were straight duckwing. Also mottling from the olandsk and spangled + mottling i believe from the yokos. O..and mahogany and a duckwing base from the yokos. Those are the main genes i believe I'm working with. Plus whatever unknown genes the olandsk and serama carried.

I maybe shouldn't have added the serama as the color and body type are so different...but I was hoping to add in better defensive behavior as the pure yokos struggle with that...the serama I used are fiesty birds that can actually free range well in spite of their size...pet quality, not show quality birds. If I understand correctly, Yokohama are modifiers over a duckwing base. I'm wondering if that increased the amount of stray black feathers though....maybe just because it means some aren't carrying 2 dominant white genes? But my pure yokos also get those stray blacks and I thought they're 2 copy dominant white so maybe something else? I don't have obvious 1 copy birds like paints anymore.

I'll try the sibling mating...I'm so used to avoiding that...what you said makes sense though.

 

[NatJ]

I'll try the sibling mating...I'm so used to avoiding that...what you said makes sense though.

I wasn't trying to suggest that you mate siblings with each other, more that you pick a female whose brothers do not show black, and mate her with some male who does not show black (may or may not be her brother.) It's a way to guess about which hens have the genes to suppress that black.

I know there are reasons to mate siblings in some situations, and reasons to avoid it in some other situations, but I don't have suggestions either way for your project.

[Edit to add: regarding the other points in your post--they helped clarify what is going on, but I can't think of anything else helpful to say about it.]

 

[ChicksnMore]

I wasn't trying to suggest that you mate siblings with each other, more that you pick a female whose brothers do not show black, and mate her with some male who does not show black (may or may not be her brother.) It's a way to guess about which hens have the genes to suppress that black.

I know there are reasons to mate siblings in some situations, and reasons to avoid it in some other situations, but I don't have suggestions either way for your project.

[Edit to add: regarding the other points in your post--they helped clarify what is going on, but I can't think of anything else helpful to say about it.]

Gotcha...that makes sense!

I worry about these guys health just because every batch of Yokohama I've purchased from different hatcheries have had at least one bird grow up with a defect...crossed beaks, wry tails etc. I had hoped buying birds from different parts of the country would lead to healthier birds but I'm not sure it can. I haven't encountered that with any other breed. My understanding of genes and line breeding is tentative, shaky, and young in experience...lol, so I've avoided it just because I'm afraid I'll mess it up and my banties will end up with the same problems as the pure yokos. I have no idea really what I'm doing and I greatly appreciate your advice!

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Gotcha...that makes sense!

I worry about these guys health just because every batch of Yokohama I've purchased from different hatcheries have had at least one bird grow up with a defect...crossed beaks, wry tails etc. I had hoped buying birds from different parts of the country would lead to healthier birds but I'm not sure it can. I haven't encountered that with any other breed. My understanding of genes and line breeding is tentative, shaky, and young in experience...lol, so I've avoided it just because I'm afraid I'll mess it up and my banties will end up with the same problems as the pure yokos. I have no idea really what I'm doing and I greatly appreciate your advice!

I read an article that mentions similar problems with Yokohama health (it also talks about their weird color genes), if you want to check it out: https://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Phoen/ReederRedShGenetics.html