Very sick boy, droopy comb, wobbly and more...please help!

[LuvnMyChix]

1) What type of bird , age and weight (does the chicken seem or feel lighter or thinner than the others.)

Silkied Serama Rooster, 1 year old, feels lighter than usual and current weight is 468 grams or almost exactly 1 pound.

2) What is the behavior, exactly.

Unbalanced (falls over sideways or head first constantly), stopped crowing and making his usual chicken noises (he talks to my husband and me all the time...or he used to), lethargic, comb turns purple at back but then turns red again the next day. Acts like he's gasping sometimes, and I see him breathing through his mouth a lot. Checked for gapeworms and saw nothing. Newest symptom that started yesterday...his comb is now drooping to the side when it has always stood straight up.

3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms?

Roughly about 2 weeks

4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms?

No

5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.

No

6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.

Have no idea, that's why I came here for help

7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.

He was eating medicated chick starter from Southern States because he was housed with my other Seramas (2 females) and babies (2 babies). I switched to non-medicated chick starter about 5 days ago when a friend of mine (who is also a chicken owner) suggested what might be wrong with him is the Ampril in the feed. He's eating and drinking just fine, and has done so the entire time he's been sick.

8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.

Normal most of the time, sometimes a little bit watery.

9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?

Separated from his flock. Did an aggressive 3 day treatment of poly-vi-sol (no iron) and vitamin B complex, both liquids. Did 5 day treatment of Tylan 50 (1/8 cc per dose).

10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?

Treat completely myself.
11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.










12) Describe the housing/bedding in use

Currently in a plastic tub with pine shavings.



I am at a loss with my beautiful boy. I have had chickens for a few years now, and have had my share of illnesses and injuries. This has never happened to any of my birds before. I have googled and inquired with fellow chicken owners, and am dumbfounded. Please someone help me save my little man! FYI: Culling is NOT an option. I have culled sick/injured/deformed birds before, but I will not do so with this guy unless he's suffering and there's no hope.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

 

[chooks4life]

First, thanks for providing the relevant info, so many people skip that and just ask for answers when questions must be asked first, and then don't respond to the questions, makes it impossible... Sorry but I have a few more questions.

Was he on medicated chick feed for his entire life before you switched recently?

The comb turning purple at the extremities (or anywhere really) is a common sign of liver or especially heart problems. Gasping for breath can be due to the same. Unfortunately feeding layer feed or chick feeds to roosters can cause both issues, because it's too high fat and roosters don't need that past a certain age. He looks like a cockerel though, under a year old, going by his spur development?

Down on his hocks I see. Can he stand normally or has he been like this ever since getting sick?

Was his comb/wattles ever redder than this? If not, it's not a very good sign, a healthy male should be tomato red at the least, not dark pink, ideally more cherry/'lipstick' red than tomato red.

Can you gently feel his abdomen and see if there's any mass in it, or if it feels empty?

Best wishes.

 

[LuvnMyChix]

First, thanks for providing the relevant info, so many people skip that and just ask for answers when questions must be asked first, and then don't respond to the questions, makes it impossible... Sorry but I have a few more questions.

I read the stickies before I posted

Was he on medicated chick feed for his entire life before you switched recently?

NO. Medicated chick start for his first 16 weeks of life (I hatched him in an incubator), then on layer/breeder up until the serama chicks were born about 2 months ago.

The comb turning purple at the extremities (or anywhere really) is a common sign of liver or especially heart problems. Gasping for breath can be due to the same. Unfortunately feeding layer feed or chick feeds to roosters can cause both issues, because it's too high fat and roosters don't need that past a certain age. He looks like a cockerel though, under a year old, going by his spur development?

He was born on Easter last year. So he just passed his 1st birthday.

Down on his hocks I see. Can he stand normally or has he been like this ever since getting sick?

He can stand normally, but then he falls over. This "down on his hocks" is new and just started a day or two ago.

Was his comb/wattles ever redder than this? If not, it's not a very good sign, a healthy male should be tomato red at the least, not dark pink, ideally more cherry/'lipstick' red than tomato red.

Yes they have been redder. And erect.

Can you gently feel his abdomen and see if there's any mass in it, or if it feels empty?

Don't feel anything...but his breast bone is more prominent than when he was healthy.

Best wishes.

 

[chooks4life]

Ok thanks. It shouldn't be a deficiency issue if he's been on breeder feed. But it's still possible because not all animals process their food correctly.

When was he last wormed? Worms can do some crazy things one wouldn't necessarily expect, including paralyze birds. He may be having a reaction to the chick starter too, your friend may be right.

Quote:
Some possibilities... Vitamin K deficiency, or Hypokalemia. Causes ataxia, weakness of the muscles, weakness of the heart and problems with the respiratory system.

He may have copped a spinal injury, not too uncommon for a chook to get landed on by another chook such as when jumping down from the perch. Pelvic injuries can look the same.

This is a very handy chart, if you scroll down it a fair way you will find a chart to help diagnose what it is. Unfortunately many things have the same symptoms.
Quote:
This one contains a similar but simpler chart for diagnosing deficiencies.
Quote:
This covers paralysis causes in general:
Quote:
Sorry I can't offer a sure diagnosis.

Best wishes.

 

[Eggcessive]

Was he vaccinated for Mareks? I would continue with the vitamins since he is sitting on his hocks, and having problems walking. A vitamin for poultry that also contains minerals may be better. Do you notice any wet conditions where mold spores could cause aspergillosis, a respiratory disease? Mareks and other diseases such as lymphoid leukosis, can cause a low white blood cell count. That can cause immunity problems, and make it easy to get common infections. Coccidiosis, respiratory diseases are some of those. If possible, a stool sample could be examined for worms, cocci, and bacteria.

 

[chooks4life]

Yeah that stickie needs some additions I think. It's handy but it doesn't cover everything that needs asking.

 

[LuvnMyChix]

When was he last wormed? Worms can do some crazy things one wouldn't necessarily expect, including paralyze birds.

It's been a while. I don't worm unless I see worms...I don't administer any medication to my flocks unless there's evidence.


Some possibilities... Vitamin K deficiency, or Hypokalemia. Causes ataxia, weakness of the muscles, weakness of the heart and problems with the respiratory system.

Can I treat for Vit. K deficiency?

He may have copped a spinal injury, not too uncommon for a chook to get landed on by another chook such as when jumping down from the perch. Pelvic injuries can look the same.

Not possible...had been kept inside in a cage for the winter after getting frostbite on his comb. He and his two ladies. Wire cage with cheap carpet (because I didn't want leg/foot issues from walking on wire). So there has been no jumping.


Best wishes.

 

[LuvnMyChix]

Was he vaccinated for Mareks?

No. Symptoms do not lead me to believe it's Marek's. Also, he has been kept indoors since November with no exposure to the outside, so Marek's is unlikely.

Do you notice any wet conditions where mold spores could cause aspergillosis, a respiratory disease?

Again, not housed outside, and I clean the cage daily so no way could mold grow.

Mareks and other diseases such as lymphoid leukosis, can cause a low white blood cell count.

I have had birds with Avian Leukosis. I'm VERY familiar with this illness (I perform my own necropsies). I am positive this is not it. They symptoms do not fit as I've witnessed the symptoms of Avian Leukosis in a handful of my birds (I had the type that is passed down from hen to egg, not the type passed by poo or dander).

That can cause immunity problems, and make it easy to get common infections. Coccidiosis, respiratory diseases are some of those. If possible, a stool sample could be examined for worms, cocci, and bacteria.

Stool sample is a good idea. I think I'll do that, thank you for the suggestion!!

 

[chooks4life]

I've never used Polyvisol, does it have vit K in it? Dark leafy greens are one way to supplement it. Any nutrient source is better processed if it is given in a complex, nutrients do not exist in isolation naturally and giving them in isolate form can be useless.

Yes, you can treat hypokalemia depending on how advanced it is of course and that's effectively unable to be pinpointed before death. All you can do is try.

A broader spectrum multinutrient, with minerals as well not just vitamins as Eggcessive suggested, might be helpful in this case. I would consider it necessary just to eliminate some possibilities and support his system through this time.

The cheap carpet you mention... How much do you know about it? There's a chance the carpet itself is toxic. It's not the safest thing to keep any animal on. Don't know what it's like where you are but many carpets here are toxic either because of having sat on a toxic pest-repellant and mold-repellant underlay, or because of having been treated directly. Some of the chemicals they use persist for many years after the last application. Theoretically the hens should be affected too if that's the issue but the genders do react differently to everything from nutrition deficiencies to diseases, and both natural and artificial toxins. It's not uncommon to see only females or only males get sick.

I understand not worming unless you see reason to do so but sometimes crippling issues are the first evidence you see, unfortunately. One doesn't always see live worms or eggs in the poop first.

Also being kept indoors is a possible issue. Has he had any natural sunlight regularly, not filtered through glass? Synthetic alternatives don't do exactly the same job and vitamin D is involved in so many things, we're only just finding out many of its functions.

Molds in houses are a serious and very common issue. So are the myriad of toxins one can find in the average building. Most individuals are fine with these issues. But some just aren't.

Good luck with him.

Best wishes.

 

[LuvnMyChix]

I've never used Polyvisol, does it have vit K in it? Dark leafy greens are one way to supplement it. Any nutrient source is better processed if it is given in a complex, nutrients do not exist in isolation naturally and giving them in isolate form can be useless.

Yes, you can treat hypokalemia depending on how advanced it is of course and that's effectively unable to be pinpointed before death. All you can do is try.

A broader spectrum multinutrient, with minerals as well not just vitamins as Eggcessive suggested, might be helpful in this case. I would consider it necessary just to eliminate some possibilities and support his system through this time.

The cheap carpet you mention... How much do you know about it? There's a chance the carpet itself is toxic. It's not the safest thing to keep any animal on. Don't know what it's like where you are but many carpets here are toxic either because of having sat on a toxic pest-repellant and mold-repellant underlay, or because of having been treated directly. Some of the chemicals they use persist for many years after the last application. Theoretically the hens should be affected too if that's the issue but the genders do react differently to everything from nutrition deficiencies to diseases, and both natural and artificial toxins. It's not uncommon to see only females or only males get sick.

I understand not worming unless you see reason to do so but sometimes crippling issues are the first evidence you see, unfortunately. One doesn't always see live worms or eggs in the poop first.

Also being kept indoors is a possible issue. Has he had any natural sunlight regularly, not filtered through glass? Synthetic alternatives don't do exactly the same job and vitamin D is involved in so many things, we're only just finding out many of its functions.

Molds in houses are a serious and very common issue. So are the myriad of toxins one can find in the average building. Most individuals are fine with these issues. But some just aren't.

Good luck with him.

Best wishes.

What can I purchase that is a vitamin AND mineral supplement? One of the issues I've run into is dosage of medications for my bitties...most dosage amounts are listed for LF, some for bantams...but we're talking about a one pound chicken. I don't even know if the vitamins I'm administering is too much or too little...I really am guessing here. I do not know if you can overdose a chicken on vitamins. I've been giving him 0.5 ml's of each daily...maybe I should bump it up to 0.5 ml's of each 2x a day? I really need a plan here...should I start with a wormer first? I have Wazine and Ivermectin injectible (of course I dose topically). I have a Southern States nearby, so I can pick up other stuff if need be...IF they have it in stock. Can I continue giving vitamins while worming? Or continue with just the vitamins? If vitamins, how long should I be giving them to him, how often, and how much?

The Poly-vi-sol Baby vitamins have this listed on the label (Per ML):
Vitamin A 750 IU
Vitamin C 35 mg
Vitamin D 400 IU
Vitamin E 5 IU
Thiamin 0.5 mg
Riboflavin 0.6 mg
Niacin 8 mg
Vitamin B6 0.4 mg
Vitamin B12 2 mcg


The vitamin B-Complex per ML:

Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 1.7 mg
Niacin 20 mg
Vitamin B6 2 mg
Vitamin B12 1.2 mg
Panthothenic Acid 30 mg



As for sunlight, no. Only through the window, which the cage is right up against. I put him outside a few minutes ago...in a movable run.